soccerguy315 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Lol...apparently this is a touchy topic.There is nothing in my post to suggest I have read a single word of the G7 proposal. so... you are defending a proposal that you haven't read? excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yes, it is. I'll try to explain why next.All corps put effort into their financial position. Drum corps are all charities....in other words, not a single one of them balances their books without the assistance of charitable gaming or charitable giving. Operating these drum corps costs more than the combined total of what corps can charge their members in tour fees and what they can charge the fans for tickets. So they all have to raise additional funds....brutal, thankless work that seems to get tougher every year. I can see how that becomes a touchy topic. Yes. No. As I have asked everyone else making this claim, can you quantify what portion of DCI's "draw" is owed to these specific corps? OK, now you're talking sense again. Go on.... Sure - many corps are already trying these ideas. They're just more fundraising ideas in the end. However, none of these corps are entitled to commandeer the entire DCI operation in their revenue-stream-of-choice. Just because Crown has a ticketing operation does not give them the right to take over DCI ticketing, cast DCI staff off to the unemployment line, and pocket whatever percentage of receipts they feel appropriate for the service they would impose on provide to DCI. Why should the non-G7 be denied participation? I'm sure the Blue Devils do good clinics. So does Academy....they've been doing clinic programs three years longer than they've been fielding a drum corps. Why should Blue Devils (or any single corps) become lord of the clinics? HMMMM since when can a corps only charge a certain amount ? interesting...or ticket prices... and I really think the charity thing is sooooo questionable. But very interesting. Im with 2 corps and never heard that in all my years. O well learn something new every day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 HMMMM since when can a corps only charge a certain amount ? interesting...or ticket prices... Because people will only pay a certain amount. You reach a point of diminishing returns if you raise tour fees or ticket prices too high. and I really think the charity thing is sooooo questionable. But very interesting. Im with 2 corps and never heard that in all my years. O well learn something new every day How is that questionable? The corps file for 501©(3) status....tax exemption for charitable organizations. You've never heard of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Because people will only pay a certain amount. You reach a point of diminishing returns if you raise tour fees or ticket prices too high.How is that questionable? The corps file for 501©(3) status....tax exemption for charitable organizations. You've never heard of that? Yes i have ...of course and I know that a 501c3 is a non profit...and I also know that a CHARITY gives to the community ( some corps do but do many? ) a charity also doesnt charge for the service whatever it is. to belong to a drum corps costs thousands. but hey works for me I must have mis understood your other comment I thought you had said by law as a charity or DCI or a corps CANT charge over a certain amount...They can but people wouldnt pay.. WEll thats debatable I guess. Who would have thought it would have got this high But sorry I confused what you said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedci Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yes i have ...of course and I know that a 501c3 is a non profit...and I also know that a CHARITY gives to the community ( some corps do but do many? ) a charity also doesnt charge for the service whatever it is. to belong to a drum corps costs thousands. but hey works for meI must have mis understood your other comment I thought you had said by law as a charity or DCI or a corps CANT charge over a certain amount...They can but people wouldnt pay.. WEll thats debatable I guess. Who would have thought it would have got this high But sorry I confused what you said let's see if we can smooth out the NPO/501c3 thinking here. a 501c3 is a tax status granted by the govt/irs on the presumption that the organization applying for that status is going to provide some service that would not be available unless the organization providing it had this status. We'll call these organizations "NPOS". These NPOs cannot run for the benefit of any sharholders, nor can there really be "shareholders". The generation of revenue and expediture of $$$$ is done in pursuit of fulfilling the mission, which is the reason they got this tax status in the first place. Charity is somewhat meaningless word in this discussions. But to the point of "charities give to the community", the drum corps ARE the community. Consider corps running bingo games - the games are generally somewhat seperate from the drum corps but the drum corps is the cause or charity that the bingo game supports. My take would be that all/nearly all corps have as a component of their mission/cause to use music/arts/performance to provide a life and education enhancing experience. Some folks may disagree with drum corps being called "charities" or "causes" or their mission. But what i think people likely disagree about is the social return on investment (SROI) that drum corps or any cause/charity delivers. The Blue Devils are not the soup kitchen operated by Sister Rosetta Stone. As a general observation, i thnk that corps undervalue what they offer participants - the market tells them that - since substantially more people audition than can be used. This of course sidesteps the quality issue - but top end corps see several hunderd more potential performers than thet can accomodate. At the same time, the corps want to value the output of their programs based on the cost to run/produce those programs -- which often leads to some serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 let's see if we can smooth out the NPO/501c3 thinking here. a 501c3 is a tax status granted by the govt/irs on the presumption that the organization applying for that status is going to provide some service that would not be available unless the organization providing it had this status. We'll call these organizations "NPOS". These NPOs cannot run for the benefit of any sharholders, nor can there really be "shareholders". The generation of revenue and expediture of $$$$ is done in pursuit of fulfilling the mission, which is the reason they got this tax status in the first place. Charity is somewhat meaningless word in this discussions. But to the point of "charities give to the community", the drum corps ARE the community. Consider corps running bingo games - the games are generally somewhat seperate from the drum corps but the drum corps is the cause or charity that the bingo game supports. My take would be that all/nearly all corps have as a component of their mission/cause to use music/arts/performance to provide a life and education enhancing experience. Some folks may disagree with drum corps being called "charities" or "causes" or their mission. But what i think people likely disagree about is the social return on investment (SROI) that drum corps or any cause/charity delivers. The Blue Devils are not the soup kitchen operated by Sister Rosetta Stone. As a general observation, i thnk that corps undervalue what they offer participants - the market tells them that - since substantially more people audition than can be used. This of course sidesteps the quality issue - but top end corps see several hunderd more potential performers than thet can accomodate. At the same time, the corps want to value the output of their programs based on the cost to run/produce those programs -- which often leads to some serious issues. thanks for your insight on this. I actually was questioning when i thought the other poster was saying that only certain prices could be charged BUT i mis read his comment... but thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skluyuk Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) so... you are defending a proposal that you haven't read?excellent. Where do you see that in my posts? I'm am not defensive about anything. You should read things all the way through and with a little less bias. I'm simply adding some discussion to this topic with a bigger picture perspective (e.g. ideas for financial solvency). I think my post was on topic. Sorry if it is not. Edited July 20, 2010 by skluyuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (soccerguy315 @ Jul 19 2010, 11:12 PM) so... you are defending a proposal that you haven't read?Where do you see that in my posts? ... Here is where...... QUOTE (skluyuk @ Jul 19 2010, 03:12 PM) There is nothing in my post to suggest I have read a single word of the G7 proposal. Matter of fact is that I have only read the press releases discussing the concept. Edited July 20, 2010 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Where do you see that in my posts? I'm am not defensive about anything. You should read things all the way through and with a little less bias. I'm simply adding some discussion to this topic with a bigger picture perspective (e.g. ideas for financial solvency). I think my post was on topic. Sorry if it is not. ok, let me try again then... you are arguing FOR many aspects of the proposal, when you haven't read the proposal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Where do you see that in my posts? I'm am not defensive about anything. You should read things all the way through and with a little less bias. I'm simply adding some discussion to this topic with a bigger picture perspective (e.g. ideas for financial solvency). I think my post was on topic. Sorry if it is not. it is...and isn't. because there are many pieces of the puzzle you are missing. if you read the G7 press release, it sounds great. Til you read the actual proposal and the DCW article..and Dan's interview...and find out that really it is a naked power grab. what makes it worse is some of the best run corps financially may not be the ones breaking the bak to chase for a title every year. there is a lot more to making a successful and stable organization than competitive results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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