kdaddy Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 All I have to say is this:2007 16th place music effect 2008 14th place music effect 2009 16th place music effect 2010.........?????? Also worth noting... 2007 16th place visual GE 16th place visual performance 16th place visual ensemble 17th place brass 15th place music ensemble 15th place percussion Overall placement: 16th 2008 13th place visual performance 13th place visual ensemble 13th place brass 13th place music ensemble 14th place percussion Overall placement: 13th 2009 16th place visual GE 17th place visual performance 17th place visual ensemble 15th place color guard 16th place brass 16th place music ensemble Overall placement: 16th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 All I have to say is that for each of those years, I can think of only one section in the corps that even remotely resembled finalist performance calibre on a consistent basis, and that was the 2008 color guard. I'm not saying that the music design has been great all those years, either. But I am saying that focusing on just that one aspect when there are other issues at hand as well is short-sighted. If the corps can't march or play or drum or spin consistently well, it won't matter if Aaron Guidry is writing the parts or if Jim freaking Prime is. They've got a lot of decisions to make in the off-season, in a lot of different areas, and they know this. Why don't we all just wish them well for the rest of summer, and see how things shake out? My reply is this.............. If Jim Prime (and I don't appreciate your disrespect with his name) was writing arrangements for the Crossmen, they would never, ever be 16th place in music effect. Listen to Blue Knights, and listen to Madison this year. They don't have music effect/arrangement issues......none. It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals. Subpar music effect has been the corps consistent nemesis for five consecutive seasons, and all 4 in Texas under the Guidry arrangement "team". You somehow insinuate that if they execute better, the effect automatically increases. Not true in my book. Even great performance can't fix a mediocre arrangement. GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Remember when Blue Devils did really good playing jazz ?? Remember when Crossmen did really good playing Jazz ?? Silly argument, no logic. G Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 i'll sprout wings and fly to the planet Caprica if they're within sniffing distance of finals. i'd say their program is designed better than 1 of the corps you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 4) Excellence is what is currently keeping them back. You make a lot of great points, but I think this is the most pertinent to this thread. Design isn't necessarily what is holding the corps back competitively, it's execution. Of course, like everyone else right now, design adjustments are needed, but it's marching/playing/spinning execution that is keeping them from scoring higher. I don't know if people in this thread criticizing the arranging style have noticed, long-building phrases are not what the judges are rewarding for the most part. Crossmen's arrangements are very much in vogue with design trends (see the dozens of Blue Devils threads criticizing their brass charts from their past three or more season), and if/when the corps executes better they will score better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 RELAX !!! Crossmen have had 10 shows in 2010 there are 16 shows left in 2010 for them. they have improved dramatically since Kalamazoo with more changes and cleaning coming this week. they are currently 4 or so points out of a finals spot.. they WILL pick up ground. RELAX....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I wasn't laying the blame there or anywhere else specifically. It's just clear to me that somewhere along the line something's not quite working. There are a whole range of possibilities (up to and including the performers).Uggh. Just followed that link and the staff bios open word documents? yikes.. oh I know you weren't, I was just offering something else as a possible explanation for the music direction. And I agree that opening in a word document is terrible... very terrible and not user friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossmenAlumni Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 My reply is this..............If Jim Prime (and I don't appreciate your disrespect with his name) was writing arrangements for the Crossmen, they would never, ever be 16th place in music effect. Listen to Blue Knights, and listen to Madison this year. They don't have music effect/arrangement issues......none. It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals. Subpar music effect has been the corps consistent nemesis for five consecutive seasons, and all 4 in Texas under the Guidry arrangement "team". You somehow insinuate that if they execute better, the effect automatically increases. Not true in my book. Even great performance can't fix a mediocre arrangement. I'll disregard the comment that I was somehow disrespecting Jim Prime. I wasn't, never intended to, and you simply took it the wrong way. We'll disagree on 2008. I thought that show was designed well enough musically that a stronger and more well executed musical ensemble would have propelled them into finals. But on the last point, we just won't be seeing eye to eye and we should probably stop trying to continue this conversation. In my experience teaching drum corps over the years and dealing with the judging community, excellence is the single biggest factor that bleeds into all other captions. And when you're in that zone of corps from 12-17, it is THE biggest determinant to getting the nod over someone else. Excellence IS effect. We obviously won't agree here. Have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seinphan Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I think the fool's definition of "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" comes into play here. It could be music design (Guidry), arranging/orchestrating (Chambers), lack of REAL experience in some staff, or whatever....it's not working. Fred and Mark need to sit down at the end of the season, get emotions and friendships out of the way and make some "business" decisions. Get someone in there who REALLY understands drum corps to serve as program/staff coordinator, let them put a staff and show together then get out of their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudHype Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 My reply is this..............It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals. GB Between the 2 Semis Music Efect Judges, between the Scouts and Crossmen, the difference in the Rep sub caption was .1 (one Judge had Crossmen up in rep) and the difference in Performance is where the separation happened. . Crossmen tied Colts The strength of Crossmen was Guard and they popped a number that was .6 better then Madison. Take out the guard captions, the corps tied in visual. Madison beat Crossmen in all things music. End of the day, execution not book. Even though 08 is the book I really didn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.