Sign in to follow this  
Blackstar

What's going on with Crossmen?

Recommended Posts

All I have to say is this:

2007 16th place music effect

2008 14th place music effect

2009 16th place music effect

2010.........??????

Also worth noting...

2007

16th place visual GE

16th place visual performance

16th place visual ensemble

17th place brass

15th place music ensemble

15th place percussion

Overall placement: 16th

2008

13th place visual performance

13th place visual ensemble

13th place brass

13th place music ensemble

14th place percussion

Overall placement: 13th

2009

16th place visual GE

17th place visual performance

17th place visual ensemble

15th place color guard

16th place brass

16th place music ensemble

Overall placement: 16th

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All I have to say is that for each of those years, I can think of only one section in the corps that even remotely resembled finalist performance calibre on a consistent basis, and that was the 2008 color guard. I'm not saying that the music design has been great all those years, either. But I am saying that focusing on just that one aspect when there are other issues at hand as well is short-sighted. If the corps can't march or play or drum or spin consistently well, it won't matter if Aaron Guidry is writing the parts or if Jim freaking Prime is. They've got a lot of decisions to make in the off-season, in a lot of different areas, and they know this. Why don't we all just wish them well for the rest of summer, and see how things shake out?

My reply is this..............

If Jim Prime (and I don't appreciate your disrespect with his name) was writing arrangements for the Crossmen, they would never, ever be 16th place in music effect. Listen to Blue Knights, and listen to Madison this year. They don't have music effect/arrangement issues......none.

It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals.

Subpar music effect has been the corps consistent nemesis for five consecutive seasons, and all 4 in Texas under the Guidry arrangement "team". You somehow insinuate that if they execute better, the effect automatically increases. Not true in my book. Even great performance can't fix a mediocre arrangement.

GB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Remember when Blue Devils did really good playing jazz ?? Remember when Crossmen did really good playing Jazz ?? Silly argument, no logic.

G

Exactly. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i'll sprout wings and fly to the planet Caprica if they're within sniffing distance of finals.

i'd say their program is designed better than 1 of the corps you listed.

:wall::cool::wall::ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4) Excellence is what is currently keeping them back.

You make a lot of great points, but I think this is the most pertinent to this thread. Design isn't necessarily what is holding the corps back competitively, it's execution. Of course, like everyone else right now, design adjustments are needed, but it's marching/playing/spinning execution that is keeping them from scoring higher. I don't know if people in this thread criticizing the arranging style have noticed, long-building phrases are not what the judges are rewarding for the most part. Crossmen's arrangements are very much in vogue with design trends (see the dozens of Blue Devils threads criticizing their brass charts from their past three or more season), and if/when the corps executes better they will score better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RELAX !!!

Crossmen have had 10 shows in 2010

there are 16 shows left in 2010 for them.

they have improved dramatically since Kalamazoo with more changes and cleaning coming this week.

they are currently 4 or so points out of a finals spot..

they WILL pick up ground.

RELAX.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wasn't laying the blame there or anywhere else specifically. It's just clear to me that somewhere along the line something's not quite working. There are a whole range of possibilities (up to and including the performers).

Uggh. Just followed that link and the staff bios open word documents? yikes..

oh I know you weren't, I was just offering something else as a possible explanation for the music direction. And I agree that opening in a word document is terrible... very terrible and not user friendly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My reply is this..............

If Jim Prime (and I don't appreciate your disrespect with his name) was writing arrangements for the Crossmen, they would never, ever be 16th place in music effect. Listen to Blue Knights, and listen to Madison this year. They don't have music effect/arrangement issues......none.

It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals.

Subpar music effect has been the corps consistent nemesis for five consecutive seasons, and all 4 in Texas under the Guidry arrangement "team". You somehow insinuate that if they execute better, the effect automatically increases. Not true in my book. Even great performance can't fix a mediocre arrangement.

I'll disregard the comment that I was somehow disrespecting Jim Prime. I wasn't, never intended to, and you simply took it the wrong way. We'll disagree on 2008. I thought that show was designed well enough musically that a stronger and more well executed musical ensemble would have propelled them into finals. But on the last point, we just won't be seeing eye to eye and we should probably stop trying to continue this conversation. In my experience teaching drum corps over the years and dealing with the judging community, excellence is the single biggest factor that bleeds into all other captions. And when you're in that zone of corps from 12-17, it is THE biggest determinant to getting the nod over someone else. Excellence IS effect. We obviously won't agree here. Have a great day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the fool's definition of "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" comes into play here. It could be music design (Guidry), arranging/orchestrating (Chambers), lack of REAL experience in some staff, or whatever....it's not working. Fred and Mark need to sit down at the end of the season, get emotions and friendships out of the way and make some "business" decisions. Get someone in there who REALLY understands drum corps to serve as program/staff coordinator, let them put a staff and show together then get out of their way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My reply is this..............

It's funny you mention 2008, as nothing illustrates things more than that year.....one music effect judge had them a half of a point down to Madison alone, and every tenth counts in those captions. Visual was the only thing that even put them in the hunt. I was there, and frankly thought that Colts would push them into 14th in semifinals.

GB

Between the 2 Semis Music Efect Judges, between the Scouts and Crossmen, the difference in the Rep sub caption was .1 (one Judge had Crossmen up in rep) and the difference in Performance is where the separation happened. . Crossmen tied Colts

The strength of Crossmen was Guard and they popped a number that was .6 better then Madison. Take out the guard captions, the corps tied in visual. Madison beat Crossmen in all things music.

End of the day, execution not book. Even though 08 is the book I really didn't like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.