Props and the scoring advantage...

[Phantombari1]

When comparing the top corps it seems the main difference in scoring comes from the visual and GE catacgories which in turn drive other scaptions scores. When watching BD continue to increase the size of the gap the only thing that I can see seperates them are the use of Props. Last year chairs, this year Mirrors. I am not a BD hater as I think BD's show this year is the best designed production however it is not executed any better than the other top corps when judged in each visiual caption or in any of the other catagories. Again this is just my opion but they are not technically better in any one catagory except as a total production.

I honestly believe that using props to enhance the production and executing to the same level as other corps, automatically creates the gap in scoring and subsequently enforces the idea of slotting. If other corps cannot afford the cost of using props to enhance the performance it won't matter how well they execute, the gap between the haves and have nots will increase. The only other corp I see consitantly doing the same thing are the Cavaliers.

Mind you I think the productions are good for Drum Corp but I think it prohibits other corps from reaching the same level. Maybe this is the reason fot the G7 discussions.

In the end, without the use of props, the production suffers and so do the scores.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Phantombari1

[3rd Glasgow BB]

I think a few clever corps have realised that props help hide the dirt earlier in the season.

Once the score gap is in place it's harder for other "non prop" corps to make it up. Not impossible tho, once "non prop" corps clean up, the visual gap closes.

[Just A Plain Old Fan]

Also FWIW, extensive use of props, like Cadets a few years ago, and BD this year, not only requires money for the props themselves, but also vehicles to move them. I believe BD has an extra trailer (and therefore an extra cab, and therefore an extra driver, and therefore extra fuel, etc etc etc) just for those mirrors...

Edited July 24, 2010 by Just A Plain Old Fan

[Lance]

yes, bd is only winning because of props. (duh)

the cadets door added 43 points to their score.

the big chair in boston's show represents the entire margin of victory for boston over BK right now.

the big cadets cow panel in their 96 show only added 13.55 points onto their show, so there was some shady judging going on there.

i can't even begin to guess how many bonus points crown got with their giant chess pieces.

IF CROWN, CADETS, AND CAVIES (WHO COULD PROBABLY AFFORD IT) ADDED MIRRORS TO THEIR SHOW, THEY'D HAVE SCORED AT LEAST 113 POINTS BY JUNE 25 BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE ALL DOING IS SO MUCH HARDER AND DEMANDING THAN BD AND DARN IT IT'S JUST SO DARN UNFAIR AND MAKES WANT TO COMMIT MYSELF.

[BigPapiBass5]

If they did Bostons arches for Cathedral of the Mind Cadets Tables and Glassmens chest and Spirits whatever they are this year just to name a few would have had higher scores. If they add effect in a good way then the score will go up if they are just there they wont help the score.

[Tez]

When comparing the top corps it seems the main difference in scoring comes from the visual and GE catacgories which in turn drive other scaptions scores. When watching BD continue to increase the size of the gap the only thing that I can see seperates them are the use of Props. Last year chairs, this year Mirrors. I am not a BD hater as I think BD's show this year is the best designed production however it is not executed any better than the other top corps when judged in each visiual caption or in any of the other catagories. Again this is just my opion but they are not technically better in any one catagory except as a total production.

I honestly believe that using props to enhance the production and executing to the same level as other corps, automatically creates the gap in scoring and subsequently enforces the idea of slotting. If other corps cannot afford the cost of using props to enhance the performance it won't matter how well they execute, the gap between the haves and have nots will increase. The only other corp I see consitantly doing the same thing are the Cavaliers.

Mind you I think the productions are good for Drum Corp but I think it prohibits other corps from reaching the same level. Maybe this is the reason fot the G7 discussions.

In the end, without the use of props, the production suffers and so do the scores.

I think the bolded statement above is your problem. It is obvious that the judges think that BD is superior to other corps in execution of individual visual techniques. Just watch their marching style (and yes, they do march quite a bit, contrary to what some believe)..... no other corps has as uniform and defined style from person to person as the Blue Devils do. So if it is your opinion that they don't march any better than the other top corps, fine..... but the judges certainly think they do, and I tend to agree with them.

[dugada]

Like anything else, props can add, detract or both to a show. I love the use of the mirrors but consider

*logistics, the amount of time the members take to load and unload these before and after every show is huge. This is a very physical activity at a time when you are trying to relax and prepare for a show.

*Expense.

*Site lines, audio effects. Where do you look for a tempo when you cant see the drum major and the sound is blocked by mirrors.

*Moving the mirrors. I have very little visual tolerence if they don't move smoothly and consistently and are parked perfectly straight the first time. Now go to the super market and try and control a grocery cart like that on a smooth floor.

*A great prop effect in one part of the show can now be a distraction on another part of the show as it's still on the field.

*Weather. More to worry about than just wet plumes and silks.

I offer no sympathy to those that choose to use props and what is stated above are just the additioanl considerations/risks. It can add a great deal to a show or be a huge distraction. I can only imagine the sleepless nights designing the use and logistics by the design staff. I think they did a fantastic job but this could have easily been a disaster of epic proportions.

[Tez]

Like anything else, props can add, detract or both to a show. I love the use of the mirrors but consider

*logistics, the amount of time the members take to load and unload these before and after every show is huge. This is a very physical activity at a time when you are trying to relax and prepare for a show.

*Expense.

*Site lines, audio effects. Where do you look for a tempo when you cant see the drum major and the sound is blocked by mirrors.

*Moving the mirrors. I have very little visual tolerence if they don't move smoothly and consistently and are parked perfectly straight the first time. Now go to the super market and try and control a grocery cart like that on a smooth floor.

*A great prop effect in one part of the show can now be a distraction on another part of the show as it's still on the field.

*Weather. More to worry about than just wet plumes and silks.

I offer no sympathy to those that choose to use props and what is stated above are just the additioanl considerations/risks. It can add a great deal to a show or be a huge distraction. I can only imagine the sleepless nights designing the use and logistics by the design staff. I think they did a fantastic job but this could have easily been a disaster of epic proportions.

And this is why I don't mind how high BD is scoring. Yes the props create effect by themselves, but what the do with them is amzing... and not easy at all.... they are being rewarded.

[ContraFart]

I am staying out of this one.....mainly to avoid Lances sarcasm :-P

[Phantombari1]

Like anything else, props can add, detract or both to a show. I love the use of the mirrors but consider

*logistics, the amount of time the members take to load and unload these before and after every show is huge. This is a very physical activity at a time when you are trying to relax and prepare for a show.

*Expense.

*Site lines, audio effects. Where do you look for a tempo when you cant see the drum major and the sound is blocked by mirrors.

*Moving the mirrors. I have very little visual tolerence if they don't move smoothly and consistently and are parked perfectly straight the first time. Now go to the super market and try and control a grocery cart like that on a smooth floor.

*A great prop effect in one part of the show can now be a distraction on another part of the show as it's still on the field.

*Weather. More to worry about than just wet plumes and silks.

I offer no sympathy to those that choose to use props and what is stated above are just the additioanl considerations/risks. It can add a great deal to a show or be a huge distraction. I can only imagine the sleepless nights designing the use and logistics by the design staff. I think they did a fantastic job but this could have easily been a disaster of epic proportions.

As I mentioned in the post I was only using BD as an example. I don't think BD executes any better than any other corp, that's just my opinion. They are not 2 points better in execution of any phase of the show. I actually like the show apart from some of the music and believe it should be winning however not by two points.

The point of the post isn't so much about BD as it is about corps that can afford the props that make for the big production.

That would include all of the so called G7 and maybe a few others. You will not see the big productions without the props and you will not see the lower placing corps with the props to create the big productions like the other corps.

Without huge investors the lower corps will never compete for the championship and most other corps will only win championships on rare occasions without the big productions and the props that go with them. The judging community runs out of room in execution points and has to make up the difference somewhere.

Again this is just my opinion.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Phantombari1