After talking to the judges last night...

[Perry S]

You're a hater.

JUST

MY

OPINION

I agree with him. He's not hatin'. I can look around. I can observe. BD IS NOT getting the crowd reaction some of the other corps are getting. Just an Observation.

[Perry S]

Being an advocate of good mental health I always support these therapy threads where the lost and depressed over the uncontrollable can come to seek comradeship and "share". Now first off, I'm NOT a professional, so I would suggest seeking out additional clarity outside of DCP.

Now let's go back to your previous post:

"I'm certain the BD members feel a little disappointed (of course they won't ever say that in public) when they get "less than enthusiastic" response to their efforts, which is of course really not directed at THEM but at the show DESIGN and scoring criteria...." OK, I've spent the last 3 days with BD and I can assure you that the only thing they "see" is the performance of their show to perfection (like... 100 pts perfection). If you approached them with that ridiculous statement you would be met with

The fact is that last night (in the lot in Atlanta) before they began their warm-ups Brian (DM) got them all around and said to them that "they were in the throws of something very historic (musically and visually) for drum corps." Disappointed???? You've got to be kidding. They don't understand negative..it's not in their language. They see cheering crowds all over the country, admiring fans that flock to their clinics and practices and understand how they positively influence young people all over the world because of their organization's dedication to excellence. So....in answer to your statement...you are sadly mistaken. And I emphasize sadly.

Next quote of yours: "Even if/when they win, they will have to carry that feeling with them whenever they look at their shiny DCI rings."

You gave yourself away with one little word...."shiny"...in addition to sounding creepy and a little too much like Gollum here, you are pathetically attempting to superimpose some psychological parasite, that you may have encountered. Snakes, lots of snakes here, a veritable serpentarium!

Enjoy good drum and quit trying to fix BD or get into their heads.... my guess is their personal crisis of being undefeated for 2 years and dominating the activity will pass.

As far as your little pop quiz is concerned..there are folks on DCP (many of whom do not particularly like BD's show this year) that can answer you chapter and verse. I personally hope they don't waste their skills answering one so filled with angst. You really need to find something else to do with your time, because this activity is not doing you any favors.

Finally, I'll leave you with my credo: If you aren't willing to say your post directly (face to face) to the kids (of any corps) on the field...then shut the #### up!

WOW Just WOW. Um. I agree with most of this but the Venom in it takes away from it. I am sure Lots of People love BD's show this year. And the fact they are Dominating, VERY IMPRESSIVE! I wanted to give the show even more of a chance. SO, I went to Woodland School Last night to an Open rehearsal that BD was having there and they even had a Q&A session. Very interesting. Even watched the process of making some change to parts of the show. Work ethic. Astounding. Professionalism. Through the roof. Help with the show more. MEH. It's not a lack of understanding. They answered a few questions that help. The show is a Marvel in it's freshness and nuance and such. Still, I very sorry to say, Doesn't grab. Does not Knock my socks off. No baby Throwing. And as I said a post or so ago, I am fully capable of observing a crowd at a show and TO ME it is very obvious the difference in crowd reaction.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Perry S

[Joe Salvatore]

What judges do is hard, and they mostly get things right. 90% of the judges are pretty good at their job, and 10% leave something to be desired, but that can be said in almost any profession.

My issues are not with the judges themselves, but rather with the system. For example does an early season 77 from BD equal a 77 a corps is getting now? Does a score you when a top 5 corps is in the show equal the same score when they are not there? The long and short of it, I want the numbers to mean what they say. if a corps scores an 85 I think it should be within 1 point of 85 no matter where you are, what corps you are performing with, or what part of the season it is in. I know thats a pie in the sky, but I think you can say that about other subjective sports. I will admit however that there are alot more components in a drum corps show then there are in a figure skating show.

THIS!

I totally agree with this reasoning.

The boxes on the sheets have specific criteria to be met in order to be placed within that box. Only a narrow window of subjectivity exists within a given box.

A corps should have a natural progression from box to box over the course of a season but the ultimate score should be reasonable based on previous box criteria placement. Example: a corps placing within the lower end of the 3rd box of performance visual should not be placed within the upper end of the 4th box the very next show. What does it mean when this happens? Did the first evaluation not correctly evaluate what box the visual performance should have been placed or was the second reading of the performance that much better? IMHO, the reality is the first corps on sets the standard rather than true use of the boxes. Other corps are just placed relative to the performance of that first corps or at least relative to the previous corps that have performed. Again, IMO that is wrong! Put them in the box and then and only then place them relative to other performances previously placed within the same box.

[OMH]

I agree with most of this but the Venom in it takes away from it.

oooh oooh, I get it!!!!

Venom....snakes......

"Snakes. Why'd it have to be snakes?" Indiana Jones

[Joe Salvatore]

It never stops....people love to thinly veil how they think towards something as the truth or the gospel as to how everyone else feels....where have you seen them ? You can tell me how all audiences feel about thier performancve, and how members are gonna feel ?? Yeah, Im sure the amount of standing ovations take precedence over calling their families and telling them they went undefeated in an activity they love....sheesh.

G

G

I understand your frustration with "generalization". Relax my friend.

I was at the show and appreciate some of the comments made by the poster.

BD live this year is truly impressive but the crowd did in fact react differently when their show was finished.

This is not to say every crowd sees BD a certain way or that all of the Atlanta crowd reacted a given way.

I can only report that some of the reactions to corps were, well, different.

One other example from Atlanta would include SCV receiving a polite applause after their performance.

Truthfully, I completely understand that reaction as cerebral as the SCV show is this year they really don't impact you the way many of the other corps that perform before or after them perform. It did not help that PR, Cadets were before SCV and they were followed by Bluecoats, Cavaliers, BD.

Ultimately, I agree with the OP. The judges have a difficult job of evaluating a rather complex performance but at the end of the day I really could care less how they evaluate the corps. I just enjoy the corps performances and find myself simply entertained.

[Cardman]

Did this turn into yet another BD bash thread? I am really getting tired of all this and I am one of the people who really dislike their show this year. That being said, I did want to mention something I was thinking about the other day. I have always been told that the reason these kids march drumcorps is for the crowd reaction. I was thinking the other day that it has really got to hurt the kids in BD to have that reaction subdued so much by a show that just simply does not grab the average viewer or create excitement. They could be experiencing such a greater reaction from fans if their show was more accessible. Same goes for SCV this year. I guess it's the price you pay for a championship ring? And if that's the only thing they care about (which seems to me to be what some on here in this thread are saying) then they deserve the poor reactions. Personally, I would rather march in a corps that got great crowd reactions and didn't win over a corps that got ho-hum reactions and went undefeated. That's just me though.

[jjeffeory]

That's true, and I think this reason is why it will be even more difficult for someone to overtake Blue Devils. Every other corps seems to have a substantial deficit in one caption or another, and that alone will potentially kill the chases of a corps sneaking up and wining the Championship.

From Atlanta:

* 2nd place Bluecoats were 4th in Music Ensemble

* 3rd place Cavaliers were 5th in Music Ensemble, 4th in percussion and 5th on one judge's GE Music sheet (w/7th in performance sub-caption)

* 4th place Crown 6th over all in Music

That are all VERY difficult to overcome. If you're second overall and you need to make up almost a full point in just Vis Performance alone, you're in a pretty big hole (especially when the first place corps is 1st in nearly every caption by a convincing margin).

Crown being 6th overall in Music... LOL!

[BigHoosierMack]

I was thinking the other day that it has really got to hurt the kids in BD to have that reaction subdued so much by a show that just simply does not grab the average viewer or create excitement. They could be experiencing such a greater reaction from fans if their show was more accessible. Same goes for SCV this year. I guess it's the price you pay for a championship ring? And if that's the only thing they care about (which seems to me to be what some on here in this thread are saying) then they deserve the poor reactions. Personally, I would rather march in a corps that got great crowd reactions and didn't win over a corps that got ho-hum reactions and went undefeated. That's just me though.

Yes, I'm a homer. I don't feel the need to come on here and defend anyone or anything, as I only spent one season with the corps.

But what I can tell you, is that you have little in common with the ladies and gentlemen who make up that corps. They don't care about crowd responses. The concept would just make them chuckle. It's naive to them. Yes, they do care about winning, but not a ring, and not winning in the sense of beating other corps.

As much as I hate the idea of speaking "for" the corps, The only thing that matters to a Blue Devil is being in the best Blue Devils ever. It just so happens that the best Blue Devils ever happens to have been really good, so you have a higher standard. This is what people don't get, and why people presume to know that the kids are hurt about the crowd response.... It's laughable, really, to anyone who knows what kind of people make up the organization. Scores don't matter except in relationship to perfect. The achievement of a new perfection is far more laudable (at least in our mind-sets) than making people clap. Cav's make people clap with 4 pushups and a rifle flourish. I love the show, but my high school horn lines have done more complex unison guard work. Negative crowd response is not met with negativity from the members, I can assure you. Negative assessment of their skill set......that might tick them off...

It's just different people looking for different experiences.

~Michael