How Should We Improve Drum Corps

[EllmerFUDD]

I honestly don't think you're ever going to get rid of the attitude of "keeping up with the Joneses", though. Whenever you assign value, you create a market. Like any agent in a market, individual drum corps are incentivized to act in a way that is going to bring them the most value. Any judging system worth a bit of good is going to require some consistency in the way that it hands out points - and consistency means that whenever any corps finds a better way of earning points from the sheets, the remaining corps will be sure to follow that trend.

The only real solution I see to "keeping up with the Joneses" seems to be to eliminate judging at all. Let the corps compete in exhibition. I use the term "compete" intentionally. Even if no judging were to occur, the corps would still be competing with each other, just on terms of their own making. If fan support were no longer influenced in any way by competitive placement, the only criteria left would be the entertainment of the show and the performance level as perceived by the hoi polloi. Imagine if instead of being motivated by a tenth of a point here or there in the fight to move up a spot in the standings, corps were instead motivated solely by the desire to engage as many fans as possible. Imagine the sort of shows the top 3 or 7 or 12 could produce if points and placement were of no concern whatsoever. I think the attitude of "keeping up with the Joneses would still exist, but imagine if instead of saying "wow, the Blue Devils did X and got huge points for it. We should do X too" corps instead said "wow, the Blue Devils did X and the crowd loved it, their souvenir stand is always packed. We should do X too".

I used to be completely in favor of keeping the activity competitive. I got a thrill out of competitive marching band, and I couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to win. I still think that competition is a great motivator for kids working to perfect a single show, and I think competition both gives structure to and helps to keep people interested in the season as it goes along. Yet as each year passes, I start to view the entire judging system as arbitrary and unnecessary. Consider the reaction toward the Blue Devils this year. Would this board have been filled with so much hate if a show like that weren't crushing all competitors by nearly two points? If there were no points or placements, the optimist in me is starting to think that maybe we'd have more people on this board celebrating the shows they like, rather than flaming the shows that are beating the shows they like.

Remove competition from drum corps and you will in fact kill what is known as drum corps

[Todd Tanji]

So based on the poll results one can conclude ...

[GUARDLING]

The key portion of any corps routine is the music. Very few fans would go to a contest to watch 11 minutes of just the percussion section, color guard, or the whole corps competing without the brass sectionn playing. For years now, most CD's are nothing without the ability to watch the drill. Stop these snipets of brass music and play the majority of a song and you'll make fans happy and DCI's cash cow increases with more CD sales.

Ever been to a guard or percussion WGI? hmmmmmmmm YES there are us who would sit and watch it for 11 min. AS far as CDs market research ( from what I was told anyway. Is in the DVDs) People just dont want to hear like we used to. ( Maybe it's because its all we had...haha) they want to see.

[GUARDLING]

So based on the poll results one can conclude ...

that no matter what people will have a better way to do it....lol

[EllmerFUDD]

So based on the poll results one can conclude ...

As of now we have had 77 responses. The top 3 categories are

1) Musical content and Appeal ~18%

2) Judging Criteria `14%

3) All the new school stuff (Synth, Vocals, Etc).

I left out General program content and appeal (also 14%) because I believe # 1 covers most of it.

1) 18% of folks want drum corps to play what “they” like. I would guess this is about the same percentage of folks on DCP that continue to suggest that we need Old Scholl drum Corps. For them that is drum corps and today what they see is something different. Less entertaining. IMO going back is not likely to happen.

2) Although we see and hear a great deal of complaints about judging or the criteria the response is somewhat low. I would have expected this to be much higher. From the poll I guess we can conclude the judging criteria is an issue but perhaps lower that we may have thought. I for one think a great deal of improvement can be made with the judging criteria.

3) No surprise with #3 but at 13% it appears most folks have accepted it and it is far from the issue it use to be. Wow maybe people are accepting change.

I think the pool does show (yes the sample size is relatively small) that those that think they speak for most of the fans or most of the audience or who believe they know what needs to “change” with drum corps really only speak for themselves and at best a small percentage (18%) of drum corps fans.

Maybe it’s best to let the activity do what it has always done “DEVELOP & EVOLVE” Maybe its like all the other forms of expression and entertainment, dynamic, not a formula and like the world itself, ever changing.

[Madrid]

How can "WE" improve drum corps??

Easy.

Show up. Buy a ticket. When a group comes on that you don't like. Get up. Go into the souvie area. Buy something from a corps you do like. Tell EVERY member you see, "Hey there, GREAT JOB tonight!!"

Also.

Support the Open Class. It isn't easy being the little guy. Buy our shirts, too!!

Simple.

[Bob984]

I'd say judging criteria. Reward corps for putting on shows that get the crowd on their feet, you'll get more shows that get the crowd on their feet.

Mike

I'm totally with you on this. I have suggested that they perhaps consider adding "box 6" as a start, with an 18.6/20 starting point. The language would read, "a corps may not achieve a box 6 score in musical effect unless it is deemed that the program connected with the vast majority of the audience". For example, if there was little response during the program, and at the end, where the crowd can voice their approval, there is golf applause and a delayed and forced standing O......you are not in box 6. People are right that you can't fully measure effect on an audience, but it is safe to say that if one corps has the crowd on it's feet 4 times, and they are going nuts at the end of the show, and the other group gets "golf applause" at the end, that perhaps the 2nd group didn't connect. Some argue that this would limit the type of music or show presented. My response is, "bulls**t". I don't care what you play, but you better find a way to sell it. If you don't, you are not going to earn a top effect score....it's just that simple. It should be totally possible to get 19's in performance and a 17 in effect, but you never see it happen.....ever. Until they fix that, there will be little or no change and/or progress.

GB

[Bob984]

I'd say judging criteria. Reward corps for putting on shows that get the crowd on their feet, you'll get more shows that get the crowd on their feet.

Mike

I'm totally with you on this. I have suggested that they perhaps consider adding "box 6" as a start, with an 18.6/20 starting point. The language would read, "a corps may not achieve a box 6 score in musical effect unless it is deemed that the program connected with the vast majority of the audience". For example, if there was little response during the program, and at the end, where the crowd can voice their approval, there is golf applause and a delayed and forced standing O......you are not in box 6. People are right that you can't fully measure effect on an audience, but it is safe to say that if one corps has the crowd on it's feet 4 times, and they are going nuts at the end of the show, and the other group gets "golf applause" at the end, that perhaps the 2nd group didn't connect. Some argue that this would limit the type of music or show presented. My response is, "bulls**t". I don't care what you play, but you better find a way to sell it. If you don't, you are not going to earn a top effect score....it's just that simple. It should be totally possible to get 19's in performance and a 17 in effect, but you never see it happen.....ever. Until they fix that, there will be little or no change and/or progress.

GB

[ajwdad]

The key portion of any corps routine is the music. Very few fans would go to a contest to watch 11 minutes of just the percussion section, color guard, or the whole corps competing without the brass sectionn playing. For years now, most CD's are nothing without the ability to watch the drill. Stop these snipets of brass music and play the majority of a song and you'll make fans happy and DCI's cash cow increases with more CD sales.

I don't agree. Music is extremely important, so is marching, pageantry, and percussion. Ok, so percussion is also music. But, if all you want is music, go to a band concert or symphony. The music is far better at the symphony in terms of dynamics, sound etc... And no synths.

Drum corp is all of it, put together in unique ways.... Sometimes, it is incredible, and sometimes it does not work that well... But it is far more than just music.

Edited August 6, 2010 by ajwdad

[bluublood]

I don't agree. Music is extremely important, so in marching, pageantry, and percussion. Ok, so percussion is also music. But, if all you want is music, go to a band concert or symphony. The music is far better at the symphony in terms of dynamics, sound etc... And no synths.

Drum corp is all of it, put together in unique ways.... Sometimes, it is incredible, and sometimes it does not work that well... But it is far more than just music.

And the same goes for the visual aspect back in the 70s and 80s. Great flowing music with a few slowly rotating lines and occasional company fronts.