dmfootworks Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I can't speak for other " Legacy fans " but the idea that somehow most of Legacy fans want all their Drum Corps to look and sound alike is a total mischaracterization of most of the Legacy fans I know. Many desire MORE diversity, not less. You seem to start from the premise that the current DCI Corps offer more diversity than at any time before. But look at the Troopers ( gawd I hate to be critical of them )... their show and music used to be completely awash in the decidely western motif.. it was a unique brand of Americana. Troopers look more and more now like other Corps do.... where is the total comic relief Corps, like for instance Velvet Knights ? ( there is no such Corps).... or the highly polished military precision style of a 27th Lancers, or Anaheim Kingsmen ( there is none ).... or a totally spanish inspired Hawthorne Muchachos ? ( there is none )... or a truly southern style motif of a Spirit of Atlanta ( Spirit might as well be from a factory town in Ohio now).....or a Canadian Corps with a decidely different style of music and design ( there is none from Canada speaking a whole different language re. style )..... or a Bridgemen Corps that screams out " Big City "..... you want " diversity " ? The Bridgemen lived and breathed " diversity ". The Bridgemen would never be confused in look, style, approach, etc to ( say ) the Troopers,.....and if you wanted history, you had Boston Crusaders and the Madison Scouts..... nobody in earlier eras would ever confuse the city kids and style that came from the Boston Crusaders with the prairie kids style of shows from Argonne Rebels from Kansas with their unique style, or the Bayou bluesy rhythms music style played by the Memphis Blues Corps from the bayous of Louisiana.... or the Scottish style influence of the Racine Kilties with their kilts, their unique marching style, and their unique music style.... And the guards did not all look alike. The Cavaliers guard did not look like the 27th Lancers Guard for example. Not even close. The SCV Guard did not look like the Velvet Knights guard. Not even close. I could go on, but suffice to say the notion that legacy fans do not want " diversity " but some how want " sameness " is like asking us to go to an era that resembles more of today, than earlier era's that they recall. There is " some " differeces in styles of Corps today. I can see and acknowledge SOME of that. But certainly not the " diversity " of totally unique and different styles that most of us remember where there were LOTS of diversity found among Corps that became readily apparent even from the moment the marchers got off the bus. Excellent points. There is much less diversity today across the board and in so many respects than there once was, to the extent that even corps buses all seem to look alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 So, diversity equals the number of cheap cliches a corps has? Sorry..I won't even waste my breath with you after the " cheap cliques " crack. It doesn't even deserve an attempt at an intelligent reply when the comment is so utterly ignorant and " cheap ". I don't drink the water where pigs bath either. So do us both a favor... put my post comments on " ignore " for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooMello Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 I really wasn't bothered by your post...seriously!...until the above statement.By your logic, then, orchestra music is NOT "exciting." With that in mind, I cannot value your judgment of orchestral music, and I therefore cannot value your judgment of present-day drum corps. Hopefully you will try and give the activity one more chance. There are a few shows this year that are very "fan-friendly" and have pretty "old-school" show designs. Try to check these out, and maybe you'll find things you like! I've been involved in drum and bugle corps my whole life. Some of my family are in orchestra. I go to the orchestra to hear that genre, and I go to drum corps shows to hear drum corps music. I don't expect orchestras to entertain me like drum corps or visa versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfootworks Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 So, diversity equals the number of cheap cliches a corps has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I've been involved in drum and bugle corps my whole life. Some of my family are in orchestra. I go to the orchestra to hear that genre, and I go to drum corps shows to hear drum corps music. I don't expect orchestras to entertain me like drum corps or visa versa. You realize that almost all "drum corps music" is music from a different genre arranged for the field, right? Kind of like....orchestra music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 And this is the problem with some audience members. Shows are not designed for either part to stand alone: shows are designed with the visual being JUST AS IMPORTANT as the music. This was hard for me to buy into, because I bought the CD's for nearly a decade throughout the 90's. But Cavaliers won many Championships the last ten years by designing shows where the visual is not merely complimentary to the music, but at times the music is complimentary to the visual. You can even very briefly see this philosophy at work during the ESPN broadcast in 2005, where the Cavaliers design team was discussing rewrites and the vis team said that a musical phrase had to be lengthened by a certain amount of counts in order to make a specific visual effect work better. Well, I wouldn't call a preference for audio over video "the problem with some audience members". It's just a preference - not a "problem"... It doesn't mean watching a live performance is inferior, but re-living the performance at home yea I don't see wanting to be able to, maybe years later, put in a CD or turn on an mp3 player, put on some headphones and re-live (or experience for the first time) a particular performance while driving a "problem". When the visual is stressed over the audio it becomes rather difficult to get the same experience weeks or months or years later without a DVD/mpg player - and taking their eyes off the road! (Grin) For example, while I am a huge fan of the Cavies' outstanding drills oveer the years, but I can't watch them in the car and listening is futile... I guess I'm looking at this from a more Historical perspective... Plus I'm a Radio guy! Heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I have to say I agree with the original poster on a few points, though. I don't think DCI has ever been more boring than it is right now. The activity is totally self-serving and has earned the downturn in appeal that it has. I'm not saying that the members don't work hard at it. I am sure they do. I just don't enjoy the product of all that effort. I love a significant amount of what DCI put out for the first 30 years or so, but it really drops off after that for me. I've tried to like it. I've tried to enjoy it. I want to like it. I want to get beyond some of the recent rules changes, and it is possible that it isn't all the fault of those changes. Whether it is the rules changes or just a shift in the world of program design, or a combination of those things, it doesn't really make the experience a positive one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightness Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I know I'm going to get blasted... and I have read over and over the discussions pertaining to this topic. Last night I went to my first DCI show in a long time and I was so excited to finally see one and I just hated it. I know the kids are working extremely hard and are putting their heart and soul into these shows... that is obvious. And to that extent, every single one of them are great! But these shows are the most boring things I've witnessed in a long time. Who ever is writing the music and the shows should be ashamed of themselves. How can you do that to those hard working kids? I was so disappointed. I couldn't tell when they were starting half of the time, and if it wasn't for a grand chord at the end and a horn pop, I wouldn't know when it was ending. One show actually put a "blip" of pit at the end so I thought, oh... maybe there is another song...nope. Once the pit was miked up so much they drowned out the drums! In all the years I've been marching and watching drum corps... that has to be a first! When has anything ever drowned out a drum line?! Props... what are they thinking? A guard was doing beautiful work, had beautiful flags and you could barely see them because they had placed them BEHIND these god-awful ugly black props! What is the point of that? I watched the kids race all over the field... AND NOT PLAY! What? All this hype over Bb horns and they aren't playing? Ok, cool visuals, but where's the music? And when they did play, it was "park and bark". I thought, probably because after running, that's all they could do.... and all it sounded like when they did what whole notes in big, esoteric sounding chords. I was extremely greatful for the very few soloists. (And I also noticed not one high note from a soprano/ trumpet. It was so "blended". As a matter of fact, I noticed the shift to featuring low brass most of the time. One corps featured the trumpet line technically at one point and it was a total of 8 counts! That's it? That's all?) Don't tell me I don't understand classical, I'm of the age where you HAD to study that in school. Stuff like that was not an option. I could recognize a piece for a couple of measures and I wasn't sure what the heck they were trying to do after that. I do NOT like the electronic talking on the field. The announcer said the corps would "troop the stands". They didn't, it was chaos on and chaos off. To me it was just a big mess. How can you applaud for the kids hard work during that? I didn't like those big black screens they hide behind. I thought it was extremely distracting. I really tried to figure out the new format for the shows. I know we went from "off the line" to "the exit", and I've watched DCA do "opener, the ballad and the closer". Honestly, after about the 4th corps, I still didn't get what the format was... assuming there is one. I know I HATE the show format. Please, pull the names out of a hat and let them go on in whatever order happens. I'm sick of them showing the corps in the order they are going to score them. Why even wait for the scores? You know by the line up who is going to win and who will not and everyone inbetween. DCA is just as guilty on that one. I left the show early. I won't go to another. I left feeling so sad for each and every kid on that field. Everyone of them is giving everything they have, and those are the worst "drum and bugle corps" shows I've ever seen. I thought, leave the orchestra music in the orchestra, get something exciting on those fields. I know, here it comes, blast me... but all this hype about how wonderful all these new changes are, I wasn't expecting shows that just about put me to sleep. As a wise friend once said to me, "You don't see things as they are, you see them as you are." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCV Biker Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 On the other hand, there isn't a single hornline from the 70's that could keep up with the worst lines in world class today in terms of tone quality, intonation, and musicality. Try the '72 Argonne Rebels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 And this is the problem with some audience members. Shows are not designed for either part to stand alone: shows are designed with the visual being JUST AS IMPORTANT as the music. This was hard for me to buy into, because I bought the CD's for nearly a decade throughout the 90's. But Cavaliers won many Championships the last ten years by designing shows where the visual is not merely complimentary to the music, but at times the music is complimentary to the visual. You can even very briefly see this philosophy at work during the ESPN broadcast in 2005, where the Cavaliers design team was discussing rewrites and the vis team said that a musical phrase had to be lengthened by a certain amount of counts in order to make a specific visual effect work better. Well, I wouldn't call a preference for audio over video, "the problem with some audience members". It's just a preference - not a "problem"... I want to be able to, maybe years later, put in a CD or turn on my mp3 player, put on some headphones and re-live (or experience for the first time) a particular performance or corps while driving. You can't do that when the audio is only there to support the visual. I guess I'm looking at this from a more Historical perspective: I want to be able to enjoy the corps years after they perform - even if I can't see them... But hey, I'm a radio guy! Heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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