Star of Indiana--how did they do?

[supersop]

Sorry, but this is simply untrue.

They were ROUNDLY booed in 92 for daring to win the prelims, and the squeals of delight at their ultimate misfortune on finals night were absolutely indicative of derision from a large contingent of the crowd. I even had conversations with members of their staff about it, they were thoroughly disgusted and angered by the boorishness of the crowds (93 had yet to happen, although the programming decisions DID contain a bit of "in yer face!" attitude based on years past and the treatment they received).

I also recall them being booed in 91, and even as far back as 88 in a backwater show where they beat the beloved Cavies (totally deserved to beat them, too...they were FAR better at that point in the season but noone cared).

Since I've already been corrected on this (knowing full well that my perception of experience does not always match factual history), the word I should have used was Universally Respected.

With regards to your post, you show an interesting example of why some people boo'd. Either the fans loved Cavies that much (and I think this was true), or their fan base and alumns boo'd in poor taste (possibly also true, but who would ever know?). I think there has been in a shift in the reasons people boo a result.

I have seen Madison's score boo'd many times in the past. They weren't booing the Scouts or really any corps ahead of them .. they were booing the judges.

I have seen Blue Devils boo'd for winning and boo'd for losing (when they rightfully had a shot at the title .. this is also a case where they are booing the judges).

I have seen Cadets boo'd for their programming choices. I've also seen this happen this year with BD.

Does it not seem that there has been a shift over time where the complaints of the audience are no longer directed at the judges decision ... but directed at the design staff's of the corps? Booing and outcome is not the end of the world .. and no ADULT over 17 on the field should take it as such. I'm sure they're fully aware over the course of a season why someone in the stands would boo. Some (BD) would wear it as a badge of honor ..... knowing that there are hostile fans that don't want them to win .. and maybe that's how they will remember last night.

I think in Star's case ... it should have been (in 92) a realization that it was because they were winning and that Cavies were the fan favorite. I think in 93 it should have been a realization that it was because of the it was a combination of design and winning alot of shows. I find it hard to believe that Jim Mason never stood up and said so .... in either year. But through all of it ............. I know of NO ONE personally (that I marched with, that I taught with, that I learned from or went to school with) that disliked Star or ever boo'd them. That might not sound like much ... but I got around back in the day. I was at 92 and 93 finals and saw at least 10 shows each year ..... I never heard the booing .... and I never saw anyone do anything but cheer for them.

There was a video of Star 92 AT Bloomington for the DCI Mid-America show on the site that shant be named. All I saw was a crowd going APE every time they hit a star in their show .... every time they hit a GE moment .. every time they ended a song .... right up to the last note. The crowd loved them. Some say they were boo'd when the scores were announced. Well tell me ......... which is true? The crowd loved them or boo'd them? Them being "THE KIDS" (who were also mostly over 18 back then = Adults). Or were the loyalist fans of other corps doing the booing? Or was the design being boo'd? I think it IS pretty logical to think that a corps director would have a talk with their membership if something like that occurred and explain to them why. I know the Cadets had many sitdowns with Hop in 05 about it ... and definitely in 06 and 08. Why would Jim Mason do differently? I seriously question that.

Star did get alot of flack for being "The best corps money can buy" .. blah blah blah. Those were catchphrases being thrown around by most of the community back then ... and they were ignorant statements made out of jealousy and ignorance (they seriously didn't know the structure of how Bill Cook set up the corps and the companies that funded it). Were they respected as a rising force within DCI? You bet. Were they respected as excellent performers? Absolutely! Were there morons who chose to boo them because they beat their favorite corps ... or because they put on a show that people didn't get at the time? YES they did. Was it every show and deafening? heck no .......... and painting it that way is just wrong.

[Cathie Wiener]

Star was not Disliked, Hated or Boo'ed to the extent you represent. Not even close. I'm not even going to draw a comparison to 2010 BD because that would only make matters worse. ...

... Star was, is and always will be a universally loved corps. ...

... Were they boo'ed at times? Yes, mostly early season in 93 when their show made no sense, had the wrong uniforms and needed major overhauling in the design. The end product was loved and worshiped almost instantaneously.

Wow, I would never use the term "universally loved" to describe Star's affection in the early 90's, at least. I went to A LOT of shows in 1992 and 1993 (especially those last two years), and I don't think I ever attended a show featuring them that I would deem "universally loved." I think you can say they were "universally respected," and no one could speak unbiased about praising the precision of all aspects of the corps. I went to many shows were many in the crowd around me boo'ed Star, boo'ed when the lost, and cheered emphatically when corps beat them. ...

... For those that say we were universally loved as a group...I beg to differ. During my years I saw, heard, and felt the wrath of MANY unappreaciative fans in the form of boos and other disparaging remarks. ...

I'd have to agree that Star was not well received in most places we had shows together in 92, and 93. Many people only remember the "audience discontent" of 93, but there was a lot of ire for the corps in 92, especially when that darn screen was popped up in Finals week. I was, and am still not, a fan of the 1992 show, but simply for the design of the show, not because of the corps that marched it. And in 93, no one I knew liked the show at the time. It wasn't "corps". But now that is one of my all-time favorite shows to listen to again and again.

Back on topic: Congrats to the Star Alumni Corps. Wish I could have been there to see it.

[WestCoaster]

I have seen Madison's score boo'd many times in the past. They weren't booing the Scouts or really any corps ahead of them .. they were booing the judges...I think in Star's case ... it should have been (in 92) a realization that it was because they were winning and that Cavies were the fan favorite

I always sort of rolled my eyes at the "boo the judges" no matter where Madison happened to place. I found it lame, but not particularly offensive.

Why? Because there was a certain amount of manners to it. They would boo the supposedly "too low" placement (no matter where they placed really lol), and then quickly cheer for Madison. Fine. But when the next corps and score were announced they didn't CONTINUE TO BOO. They applauded that corps, whoever it was.

The first time I saw differently was in 92. They didn't boo after the SECOND place score, they booed very loudly (I can't believe you didn't recall that, unless perhaps you skipped the Thursday show that year?) when STAR was announced in first place.

To me, that's entirely different and totally crappy. They weren't booing *for* their favorite corps, they were booing Star (I don't care what kind of justification people want to use for it, it ain't right).

And that's what the Blue Devils have been enduring and it stinks. And not just this year, last year was just as bad.

It's boorish and crappy, and speaks volumes about the people that do it (much more than the hardworking corps who are being treated like crap!). Funny that it happened basically to the two real juggernauts, was it *really* the programming? Or just the fact that people were annoyed that they were winning so much?

It almost seems like you have to remove BD 2010 from the equation and to a certain extent Star in 93 as well, being SO very controversial in their programming, but it DEFINITELY wasn't confined to those two years!

[scrappyslap]

Thanks everyone for the possitive thoughts. Doing that show the other night was one of my

greatest experiances ever. will be remembering this one for a while. It was very surreal.

now back to real life. I guess it doesn't go on forever. Thanks Everyone

[rdorocke]

Any chance anyone know where I can get a hold of that footage?I saw it last night on the Semifinals webcast for the first time.

http://store.creativevideostore.com/starofindiana.html

Choose the 1991 video.

[CT-Horn]

A perspective of: Many mature players. Standing still. In a larger hornline. In a set with upper brass close to front sideline.

It's an Alumni Corps, what did you expect 35-40 year people doing Cros to Cros at 200 bps????

[kcbari]

I guess they didn't get Steve Ragatz to do the juggling again (or Denny Giles)

The mello solo was there from '87, and Denny was in the pit...

[byline]

There was a video of Star 92 AT Bloomington for the DCI Mid-America show on the site that shant be named. All I saw was a crowd going APE every time they hit a star in their show .... every time they hit a GE moment .. every time they ended a song .... right up to the last note. The crowd loved them. Some say they were boo'd when the scores were announced. Well tell me ......... which is true?

Well, I was there at that show, and I remember quite clearly that they were booed; my recollection is that it happened in '90 and '91, too. And I don't think it was just Cavies (or, in '91, Santa Clara) homers who were doing the booing, either. There was a lot of resentment and scorn heaped upon Star for not having sufficiently "paid their dues" to get where they were . . . and the esoteric, so-called "bando" show designs didn't exactly win them any fans among those who already resented them for their meteoric rise. There were people who loved their shows. A good friend of mine was one of them. But I also vividly recall her being the minority in the group of us talking after the show. She was trying to tell us all how good Star was, but we would have none of it because we were irrationally irate with them (yes, I confess, I was part of that group). I never would have dreamed of booing them, though. Polite golf claps, yes. Booing? Absolutely not. At the very least, I recognized that, love or hate the design, or envy their rock-solid financial footing thanks to Bill Cook, those corps members worked every bit as hard as I did to perform the show they were given.

The problem is, when people boo the designers, the administration, whomever, those are not the people on the field who are on the receiving end; it's the corps. And, regardless of how many talks a corps director gives on what those boos mean, you can't unring the bell of those emotions the corps members feel at the moment they hear their beloved corps booed. That memory lasts forever . . . as the Star alumnus so eloquently pointed out earlier in this thread.

Watching Friday night's Fan Network telecast, the thing that got to me was that shot of the one fellow openly weeping at the end. Even before I read this thread, I was thinking about my own role in the generally negative response that Star got, not feeling very proud of it, and wishing I could have been there to belatedly cheer them on.

Edited August 15, 2010 by byline

[jjeffeory]

I agree with you on the playing, though obviously Star's oldest alumni would be, what, mid-40's vs Cavaliers & Madison having substantially older people on the field (marching, no less).

I think you could almost argue a step further and say that Star Alumni were the best corps of the SEMIFINALS,a s far as tone quality and arrangements.

Yea, but then I would be tared and feathered for saying such blasphemy ...

[jjeffeory]

Sorry, but this is simply untrue.

They were ROUNDLY booed in 92 for daring to win the prelims, and the squeals of delight at their ultimate misfortune on finals night were absolutely indicative of derision from a large contingent of the crowd. I even had conversations with members of their staff about it, they were thoroughly disgusted and angered by the boorishness of the crowds (93 had yet to happen, although the programming decisions DID contain a bit of "in yer face!" attitude based on years past and the treatment they received).

I also recall them being booed in 91, and even as far back as 88 in a backwater show where they beat the beloved Cavies (totally deserved to beat them, too...they were FAR better at that point in the season but noone cared).

They were booed in 1992 because they did the Americana show; people were feeling like they were trying buy another ring.... I, of course, thought that was stupid thing to think...

Edited August 15, 2010 by jjeffeory