bdlykdad Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Our brother's name was Joel "Lothar" Magnuson. Lothar, blessings to all those that you touched ..... I was also amazed at the Kilties coming back later that night, and performing their entire show. I can't imagine the feelings that were running through the corps during those moments ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
year1buick Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 While no one except the docs are really qualified to answer the question of how, you seem to be making a series of very reasonable assumptions. The first thing I thought of when I heard this was that he either had some pre-existing fracture or bone pathology that weakened it to the point where it finally snapped during a tough move. (But I'm out of my league here--I'm a tooth/mouth guy... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Not having been there, the glorious thing about Lothar's passing was that he was in the middle of doing the thing he loved the most.... all I have ever heard is how lived for the Kiltie plaid. But don't think he didn't come up in conversation Saturday night after Ryan fell, and more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwanswan Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 As someone who sat and watched the event unfold (not sure how he was injured) I have to STRONGLY disagree that Crown or DCI handled the situation well. I train with first responders and after I saw the injury I stopped watching the show and started watching in crisis responder mode. Ryan tried to get himself off the field several times without any help from ANYONE. I believe he may have even passed out once in the attempts. Nobody came to help him for a significant space of time. Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? I have only seen about two dozen comps but this is the first injury. Does it happen so often that stopping a show gets bothersome? Then an older gentleman came out...now it appears it was the bus driver! Not a judge, not a Crown staff member or a DCI member, the bus driver? God bless him because nobody else was helping. He tried to put his arm around Ryan but he couldn't support enough of his weight. Then two young women dressed in heels and little black dresses came out and tried to support him. Seems no one else in the DCI or Crown staffs saw what was going on? Or they were too concerned with the show??? The bus driver tried to place Ryan on his back and fireman drag him off the field. Nobody else came to help! The bus driver and Ryan both fell and still no one came to help. In fact it wasn't until the show ended that ANYONE else came out. Then there was no elvaluation of Ryan, they just picked him up by all fours and carried him to the sidelines! Thank God he didn't have a spinal injury. Is there a plan for injuries? A way to stop the show to care for someone? The injury was shocking to see, but what made me leave the stadium and still has me upset (as well as the medical personnal who were with me) was the length of time that it took for help to get there. Now to hear that the bus driver was injured because NO ONE WOULD HELP. Words fail me. I hope that DCI and Crown reevaluate, review and relearn their emergency procedures. Injuries are a part of any athletic pursuit, allowing the injured to suffer and having others hurt in the process should never be. No scorecard is more important than a corp member who pays to be a part of this and whose safety is trusted to the corp. My thoughts and prayers are with Ryan and with his family (who hopefully didn't see their son, leg broken falling over and over in an attempt to get help). Having lived through a complete ankle reconstrution, I know the pain, recovery time and long term repercussions on such injuries. Good luck Ryan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIbrassplaya Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) As someone who sat and watched the event unfold (not sure how he was injured) I have to STRONGLY disagree that Crown or DCI handled the situation well. I train with first responders and after I saw the injury I stopped watching the show and started watching in crisis responder mode.Ryan tried to get himself off the field several times without any help from ANYONE. I believe he may have even passed out once in the attempts. Nobody came to help him for a significant space of time. Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? I have only seen about two dozen comps but this is the first injury. Does it happen so often that stopping a show gets bothersome? Then an older gentleman came out...now it appears it was the bus driver! Not a judge, not a Crown staff member or a DCI member, the bus driver? God bless him because nobody else was helping. He tried to put his arm around Ryan but he couldn't support enough of his weight. Then two young women dressed in heels and little black dresses came out and tried to support him. Seems no one else in the DCI or Crown staffs saw what was going on? Or they were too concerned with the show??? The bus driver tried to place Ryan on his back and fireman drag him off the field. Nobody else came to help! The bus driver and Ryan both fell and still no one came to help. In fact it wasn't until the show ended that ANYONE else came out. Then there was no elvaluation of Ryan, they just picked him up by all fours and carried him to the sidelines! Thank God he didn't have a spinal injury. Is there a plan for injuries? A way to stop the show to care for someone? The injury was shocking to see, but what made me leave the stadium and still has me upset (as well as the medical personnal who were with me) was the length of time that it took for help to get there. Now to hear that the bus driver was injured because NO ONE WOULD HELP. Words fail me. I hope that DCI and Crown reevaluate, review and relearn their emergency procedures. Injuries are a part of any athletic pursuit, allowing the injured to suffer and having others hurt in the process should never be. No scorecard is more important than a corp member who pays to be a part of this and whose safety is trusted to the corp. My thoughts and prayers are with Ryan and with his family (who hopefully didn't see their son, leg broken falling over and over in an attempt to get help). Having lived through a complete ankle reconstrution, I know the pain, recovery time and long term repercussions on such injuries. Good luck Ryan! I don't think you can really sit here blame DCI or Crown, they did the best job given the situation. Edited August 16, 2010 by DCIbrassplaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Quality Matters Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 As someone who sat and watched the event unfold (not sure how he was injured) I have to STRONGLY disagree that Crown or DCI handled the situation well. I train with first responders and after I saw the injury I stopped watching the show and started watching in crisis responder mode.Ryan tried to get himself off the field several times without any help from ANYONE. I believe he may have even passed out once in the attempts. Nobody came to help him for a significant space of time. Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? I have only seen about two dozen comps but this is the first injury. Does it happen so often that stopping a show gets bothersome? Then an older gentleman came out...now it appears it was the bus driver! Not a judge, not a Crown staff member or a DCI member, the bus driver? God bless him because nobody else was helping. He tried to put his arm around Ryan but he couldn't support enough of his weight. Then two young women dressed in heels and little black dresses came out and tried to support him. Seems no one else in the DCI or Crown staffs saw what was going on? Or they were too concerned with the show??? The bus driver tried to place Ryan on his back and fireman drag him off the field. Nobody else came to help! The bus driver and Ryan both fell and still no one came to help. In fact it wasn't until the show ended that ANYONE else came out. Then there was no elvaluation of Ryan, they just picked him up by all fours and carried him to the sidelines! Thank God he didn't have a spinal injury. Is there a plan for injuries? A way to stop the show to care for someone? The injury was shocking to see, but what made me leave the stadium and still has me upset (as well as the medical personnal who were with me) was the length of time that it took for help to get there. Now to hear that the bus driver was injured because NO ONE WOULD HELP. Words fail me. I hope that DCI and Crown reevaluate, review and relearn their emergency procedures. Injuries are a part of any athletic pursuit, allowing the injured to suffer and having others hurt in the process should never be. No scorecard is more important than a corp member who pays to be a part of this and whose safety is trusted to the corp. My thoughts and prayers are with Ryan and with his family (who hopefully didn't see their son, leg broken falling over and over in an attempt to get help). Having lived through a complete ankle reconstrution, I know the pain, recovery time and long term repercussions on such injuries. Good luck Ryan! To accuse DCI or Crown of just leaving an injured kid on the field for the sake of "going on with the show" is not only stupid, but irresponsible for you to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 To accuse DCI or Crown of just leaving an injured kid on the field for the sake of "going on with the show" is not only stupid, but irresponsible for you to say. Honestly, it seems more irresponsible of DCI, Crown to leave him out there to get more injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KakkoiiOtaku Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? So, you'd rather the kid sit there and cause other injuries and possibly even more injuries to himself? If a marcher goes down in drill, they are taught to get out of the drill so that no one else gets hurt. By your thinking, it's a good thing he wasn't closer to the middle of the field because we would've had many many many more injuries -- a disaster. Sorry, but I think that things were handled perfectly. Ryan did what he had to do to get off the field and the bus driver stepped up QUICKLY and they had him off the field quickly. You make it seem like it took minutes for anyone to go out there. Way I look at it, the bus driver saw it happen and said "#### the judges, I'm going to help." Then, other people saw it and started helping. As for the staff, this happened on the edge of the form and they were probably watching the area at the center of the field where the more complicated part of the drill move was occuring. Staff can't have eyes everywhere at all times. Again, I'm sorry, but I think that saying that Crown and DCI handled this badly is just wrong, imho. I think they handled this situation perfectly. I watched a lot of what happened from my seat in 141. My best wishes and prayers go out to Ryan and Stan. I hope you both recover quickly. Edited August 16, 2010 by CMFC4Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) The performer injured himself and did the natural thing - he tried to get out of the way of either causing MORE problems for others or of getting hit himself in a vulnerable position. From what I saw, others were rushing in his direction to help him off within seconds of the signs that he was having problems. DCI can't have teams of medics positioned every 5 yards along the front sideline, and given the rarity of this type of injury in performance (first time I've ever seen it happen in 30+ years), the med team's response time seemed reasonable to the situation. A belief that somehow it'd be possible for the DM or whoever to see what was happening and stopping the show mid-set so that the performer could have been left stationary on the field is goofy. Would have been hard to accomplish, and it's possible that the injury could have been made worse by the attempt. Edited August 16, 2010 by mobrien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Good thing that didn't happen.The performer injured himself and did the natural thing - he tried to get out of the way of either causing MORE problems for others or of getting hit himself in a vulnerable position. From what I saw, others were rushing in his direction to help him off within seconds of the signs that he was having problems. DCI can't have teams of medics positioned every 5 yards along the front sideline, and given the rarity of this type of injury in performance (first time I've ever seen it happen in 30+ years), the med team's response time seemed reasonable to the situation. I find it shocking that marching members are encouraged to try to walk on broken legs and ankles, and very disappointing that anyone on this forum thinks this mentality is medically acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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