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2000 - 2010 , what have we learned?


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I guess I have also learned that the switch to Bb's didn't kill drumcorps, nor did the expansion of membership limits (twice), nor did the A&E proposal

I'll agree on the first and disagree on the second and third.

Switching to Bb brass meant that manufacturers could make the same horns for corps and marching bands. That would cut manufacturing costs (economies of scale) and it allows corps to sell the horns off and recoup a portion of the costs. I wouldn't be surprised if it's now cheaper to maintain a relatively new hornline than it was 10 years ago. They also sound better.

Increasing member limits consolidated members into the top corps, making it harder for lower tier corps to recruit. Going from 128 to 150 means there are 264 more marching members in the top 12 than there were in 2000. That definitely had a negative impact on lower tier recruitment. For the corps that were able to fill a 150 member roster, they have to deal with the additional logistics and operating costs to go along with it. (Adding an extra bus to the convoy isn't cheap)

As for A&E, the additional equipment increased operating costs in an activity where it is exceptionally difficult to keep the books balanced. That's just downright irresponsible. This isn't even taking into account the questionable impact it's had on design and performance quality. (It is getting better, though. Finally)

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We've learned that increasing numbers to 135 and 150 have hurt the lower tier corps for membership.

We've learned that the top 12 corps have benefited based on their level of execution and performance (arguably the best top 12 I've ever seen ... and I saw some stupendous top 12's in my day.

We've learned that no instrument manufacturer really wants to corner the market by making a trumpet that is modeled after the G Bugle ......... IOW an open, fat, big bore, conical design with a smaller bell flare with larger inner diameter. These instruments would have a massive aftermarket as well.

We've learned that some some directors have been in their position for far too long and should be replaced (regardless of their past contributions to drum corps).

We've learned that the hybrid shows that are heavily influenced by BOA and WGI are being highly rewarded ..... and is taking this activity in the wrong direction.

We've learned that the top gigs are having financial difficulties during the economic downturn. So much so, that they are willing to rop from the rest of DCI just to stay afloat.

We've learned that some directors have finally spoken up about the lobster and seafood buffet's at DCI events for their staff and corps directors ..... it is things like this that contribute to the massive budget of DCI expenses.

We've learned that corps need personal trainers and medical staff on hand due to the marching technique (straight leg) widely used today ... these techniques cause injuries to hipflexors, knees, hamstrings and other parts of the legs that were rarely a problem back in the day (even when we were doing wiplash drill.

We've learned that Pyware has resulted in almost every corps drill being extremely linear and symmetrical. This leads to everyone looking the same and is boring as all getout.

We've learned that some of the greatest brass arrangers in our history have forgotten how to write a chart so the performers play the entire piece ............ let alone a large segment without it ripping motif's and passages to shreds (yet still succeeding with it).

We've learned that some of the judging community have been passed by the genre itself .... and should go back to school or retire before they do more harm than good for the activity.

We've learned that greed and ego are more important than keeping drum corps alive and healthy and growing.

We've learned that some of the rules passed and tested have been huge failures. This being the case, why not revoke the rules?

We've learned that multikey does not project the same as G bugles. King has done a fantastic job with low brass instruments, but I have yet to see a trumpet that can push the same kind of sound as just about any G bugle I've ever played on.

We should have learned that with all the changes put in place this decade ........... the change to the activity has brought the inverse result of the leaderships hopes ............. DCI is going downhill by evidence of corps in existence.

We've learned that a 10 year deal for a finals location might have looked like a great deal going in ......... but has turned into a nightmare that we now have to live with.

I could go on for a few hours ............. but I dont' really feel like it.

I would say overall, we've learned that we're going in the wrong direction. For those who don't agree .......... I don't know when you were born, how well you know your history or what your opinion is of a "successful business model", but DCI is NOT success and has continued a downward spiral since the turn of the millennium. My best wishes to everyone outside the top 12 ..... I hope you find ways to continue your quest and stay healthy going forward. The odds are against you ... and that above all is what I have learned in the past decade. :sad:

Edited by supersop
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What the last two posts said. :sad::thumbup::thumbup:

Edited by 84skyrydr
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I learned about DCI and became a big fan. Can't wait till 2011. Geaux ALL the corps.

After reading DCP this year I've learned: That drum corps is going to hell in a hand basket.

That in aprox. 20 years I will think drum corps is going to hell in a hand basket.

That one is not allowed to dislike a corps show if one does they are hater/etc.

That even band geeks can be quite the "opera snobs" or should I say "drum corps" snobs at times.

But most of all I love drum corps long may they march and toot.

Edited by mlubandgroupie
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We've learned that increasing numbers to 135 and 150 have hurt the lower tier corps for membership.

We've learned that the top 12 corps have benefited based on their level of execution and performance (arguably the best top 12 I've ever seen ... and I saw some stupendous top 12's in my day.

We've learned that no instrument manufacturer really wants to corner the market by making a trumpet that is modeled after the G Bugle ......... IOW an open, fat, big bore, conical design with a smaller bell flare with larger inner diameter. These instruments would have a massive aftermarket as well.

We've learned that some some directors have been in their position for far too long and should be replaced (regardless of their past contributions to drum corps).

We've learned that the hybrid shows that are heavily influenced by BOA and WGI are being highly rewarded ..... and is taking this activity in the wrong direction.

We've learned that the top gigs are having financial difficulties during the economic downturn. So much so, that they are willing to rop from the rest of DCI just to stay afloat.

We've learned that some directors have finally spoken up about the lobster and seafood buffet's at DCI events for their staff and corps directors ..... it is things like this that contribute to the massive budget of DCI expenses.

We've learned that corps need personal trainers and medical staff on hand due to the marching technique (straight leg) widely used today ... these techniques cause injuries to hipflexors, knees, hamstrings and other parts of the legs that were rarely a problem back in the day (even when we were doing wiplash drill.

We've learned that Pyware has resulted in almost every corps drill being extremely linear and symmetrical. This leads to everyone looking the same and is boring as all getout.

We've learned that some of the greatest brass arrangers in our history have forgotten how to write a chart so the performers play the entire piece ............ let alone a large segment without it ripping motif's and passages to shreds (yet still succeeding with it).

We've learned that some of the judging community have been passed by the genre itself .... and should go back to school or retire before they do more harm than good for the activity.

We've learned that greed and ego are more important than keeping drum corps alive and healthy and growing.

We've learned that some of the rules passed and tested have been huge failures. This being the case, why not revoke the rules?

We've learned that multikey does not project the same as G bugles. King has done a fantastic job with low brass instruments, but I have yet to see a trumpet that can push the same kind of sound as just about any G bugle I've ever played on.

We should have learned that with all the changes put in place this decade ........... the change to the activity has brought the inverse result of the leaderships hopes ............. DCI is going downhill by evidence of corps in existence.

We've learned that a 10 year deal for a finals location might have looked like a great deal going in ......... but has turned into a nightmare that we now have to live with.

I could go on for a few hours ............. but I dont' really feel like it.

I would say overall, we've learned that we're going in the wrong direction. For those who don't agree .......... I don't know when you were born, how well you know your history or what your opinion is of a "successful business model", but DCI is NOT success and has continued a downward spiral since the turn of the millennium. My best wishes to everyone outside the top 12 ..... I hope you find ways to continue your quest and stay healthy going forward. The odds are against you ... and that above all is what I have learned in the past decade. :sad:

I must say that I agree with a lot of this. It will come across as someone being way too negative, but honestly when you look at each one of your comments by themselves, it really is hard to disagree.

Humans have made some errors here. Nothing new. We humans know how to do this. The key to almost everything you bring up is this: how do we move on and fix what needs fixed, and tweak what needs some improvement?

Overall I think Bb/F brass was fine. You're right about Soprano G bugles. They were the best outdoor "trumpets," but overall I think the passing of the Bbs and Fs was the way to go. It is easier on the manufacturers and allows the corps more choice and a better means of selling when they are done with the instruments.

Amping - I am ok with providing it's done well, but most corps are giving us way too much pit.

Electronic Instruments - Still not sure about, at least for me. I do like hearing some piano, or bass when needed, or strings, guitar, etc. But I guess it comes down to construction. People seem most offended when those instruments are too loud or used as primary voices in the orchestration.

Narration - Has never really been accepted by the audience. At its core, drum and bugle corps is a musical activity, not spoken theater with acting and narration.

Acting and Central Characters - This has also not gone over well. The lone exception was the 2005 Cadets show with the Catholic school girl. In most cases, however, I believe fans find the central character as an assault on the senses and on the totality of the show where, in their minds, brass and drums and guard should be the focus. So anything that takes away from that focus is damning to the senses, especially if that character is used too much in the show. The Fred Austere character in Phantom Regiment's 2005 show, used very sparingly and when needed, was also an exception.

Allowing 150 max per corps was a bad move. Perhaps good for the corps that can get it (extra income without one additional bus), but it has hurt smaller corps, and I find the extra bodies not needed. Go back to 138 or 135.

Singing - Not well received.

Music Arranging - Too much chop shop, pop corn, let's start a phrase and see how quickly we can go into something else, or pardon me but have you seen how many melodies we can put into 11.5 minutes of show?

Visual Design - too much running around like chickens with heads cut off, and usually to whole notes and half notes. Too much clutter and free form and scatter and WAY TOO MUCH posing and rolling around on the ground. Just exactly what effect was I supposed to get from all the poses and the floor rolls? I ask because I don't care what the pose is, it does nothing for me. Do corps really get GE bonus for this stuff?

Dance - I don't mind dance, but it works best when done in large groups (10 flags, 20 flags), and much less so when it's one individual dancing and posing and pointing to the sky, the clouds, waving arms across one's face as though they are creating some meaningful moment. I can never figure that out and get nothing from it.

General Effect (music and visual) - needs to be better defined and we need to have better methods for judging it. To some extent, this caption HAS to reward shows that are reaching the fans in a positive way providing they are clean and have box 5 demand.

Economics - If your corps needs more money, you need to do what ever it is, within the law, to bring in more cash; but you can't do this by robbing from the poor or taking more from DCI which you claim to be your money in the first place. If you don't have cash in the bank, then you spend too much. Where you place and what you spend on a show/staff should not matter, the corps's health is what matters. All drum corps need to learn how to raise funds for themselves, not by taking a bigger cut from a large pool of income that was designated for the entire show or for DCI as a whole. There are ways to fundraise, and from that point on a corps must work within their budget. Stop saying you need more money when you spend TOO much as it is. Cut expenses, manage better, fundraise better, cut back on travel if you have to, more local shows and events would not be such a bad thing.

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We've learned that no instrument manufacturer really wants to corner the market by making a trumpet that is modeled after the G Bugle ......... IOW an open, fat, big bore, conical design with a smaller bell flare with larger inner diameter. These instruments would have a massive aftermarket as well.

We've learned that multikey does not project the same as G bugles. King has done a fantastic job with low brass instruments, but I have yet to see a trumpet that can push the same kind of sound as just about any G bugle I've ever played on.

I don't know if you saw BDs new King trumpets ... a brand new model that no one else had ... big bore conical lead pipe, smaller bell flare, valve placements moved back. Those things REALLY projected the sound. I think that with this trumpet, King might have captured the "G bugle projection" with the "quality of a fine Bb trumpet".

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It's been actually 11 years of shows from 2000 to 2010, a full decade of DCP and DCI, plus midway through the past 10 years add in Facebook, MySpace, tweeting and You Tube. Drums Corps is about as exposed as possible. So, what has been the biggest surprise in 10 years, advancements and huge mistakes???

" huge mistake " : hands down.....the G-7 proposal.

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Yowza, Yowza, Yowza

THIS!!!!! :thumbup:

I think that "Boom-shaka-laka, Boom-shaka-laka" trumps Yowza.

I think they both are pretty bad.

Edited by CMFC4Ever
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God, why can't we ever acknowledge anything positive on this forum ever? Seems like the easy way out to complain.

I think the shows from 2000 on have gotten much more conceptually integrated each and every year.

With such an uprise in difficulty of all the shows, the performance level is starting to catch up.

Tone quality wise, the hornlines are sounding much better as a whole (with exceptions, of course).

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