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I'm confused. People here are saying that certain things should be judged or not judged as part of GE. If everything isn't judged as part of GE then they're doing GE wrong. General Effect by definition should include everything and how it all fits together.

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I guess I need my eyes checked since I did not see a perfect guard on the field any of the three nights. I didn't even see BD as having the best guard on the field becasue there work was not near the difficulty of groups such as Cavies and Crown. I never saw them throw much at all and then they do pole work for the last part of the show. That what we do to cover up bad guard members. There was also hardly any unison moments where the guard had to be in sync with each other.

I lost alot of resect for those 3 guard judges this past week. A perfect score has to be earned not just given out and BD did not earn a perfect score. Drops each night and lack of vocabulary and I have asked plenty of knowledgable guard people and all have said the same thing. I thought BD's guard was much better last year then this year.

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I was really surprised Blue Devils won colorguard to be honest. I really thought Cavaliers were much better all 3 days. I thought the difficulty level was a little higher with Cavaliers. I also thought overall visual GE should have gone to Cavaliers as well. Blue Devils did have a great show, and probably did deserve to win, I just thought those captions should have gone to Cavaliers.

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I am not trying to start a big thing, but here is my concern. I think the "guard" caption is past being a valid caption. The distinction between traditional guard members and musicians has gradually been blurred. This year's BD show even more so. It seemed the musicians were much more part of the guard presentation than any other corps. In the past twenty years guards have transitioned not by marching, but by other creative movements. IMHO, this is what made this year's BD show so different. In this show the musician's also joined the guard in using other creative movements, rather than traditional marching. In doing so, should they have been evaluated on the guard sheet?

Don,

You can go back to the Madison Scouts 1981 show and see big time eveidence of company doing guard work. The 3rd number, the percusssion feature, with the flag and rifle tosses portion right at the end of it. Madison Scouts 1999, I think, where the one guard member and the one sop switch "equipment" and the hornplayer is now spnning a rifle and also does a rifle toss, as the guard member plays a high note at the end of the one number.

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I guess I need my eyes checked since I did not see a perfect guard on the field any of the three nights. I didn't even see BD as having the best guard on the field becasue there work was not near the difficulty of groups such as Cavies and Crown. I never saw them throw much at all and then they do pole work for the last part of the show. That what we do to cover up bad guard members. There was also hardly any unison moments where the guard had to be in sync with each other.

I lost alot of resect for those 3 guard judges this past week. A perfect score has to be earned not just given out and BD did not earn a perfect score. Drops each night and lack of vocabulary and I have asked plenty of knowledgable guard people and all have said the same thing. I thought BD's guard was much better last year then this year.

Funny, I felt that way in 2002 about the Cavaliers.....I was ripped a new one.

G

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Funny, I felt that way in 2002 about the Cavaliers.....I was ripped a new one.

G

You were justified, IMO. What was true of the Cavs' guard in 2002 is what was true of their guard this year, and what is often enough true of the entire corps: they're doing some of the hardest stuff out there, but it sometimes isn't as clean as some of the other top groups. Sometimes they get away with it (Four Corners, the guard in 2002), sometimes not...

Either way, BD and Cavs (and Crown) all had great guards this yr. I wouldn't agree that BD's was less difficult. Less "tricky," maybe, but that was balanced out by a greater range of responsibilities than most other guards, and by weird performance obstacles.

No one does a full ensemble weapons toss like BD, no one can top Crown's flag writing and execution, and the Cavs have one of the best rifle lines in the business -- brass members notwithstanding :thumbup: . Cavs have also always had great body. Anyway, they're all seriously that good. BD was shy of perfect, from what I've seen, but compared to the cleanliness of other groups and the scores received, I can see why that score might be justified.

Edited by saxfreq1128
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The color guard caption judges the color guard - if the corps' horn or drum line picks up equipment then it is fair game to the guard judge. BUT (and this is my opinion) the horn line dancing is move GE and Visual performance than anything else. They are not color guard members just because they are doing something other than "traditional" marching. The guard is trained to dance and execute dance and equipment work; the horn line/drum line is (again my opinion) being trained to provide a different visual aesthetic which is different from the color guard.

So if members of the brass pick up rifles, they are to be evaluated by the guard judge. But if members of the brass and color guard are doing the same movement at the same time only the guard will be evaluated by the guard judge?

Looking at the fact that BD received 20's in guard, the movements of the musician's must not figure into that score. While I appreciate the movement of the musician's in BD and I think it was done well, they did not move better than other guards in finals. If that would have been figured into the BD guard score, they would not have received a perfect score.

And that is my question. At what point does body movement by a musician become the domain of the body movement specialist, the guard judge? Or should the guard score and judge be eliminated, since it is inherently figured into the visual score?

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You have to look no further than your very own Cavaliers for some great examples of horn players using body movement / dance movement / gymnastics to enhance a show. They've really wowed the audiences throughout the past 10 years with some of their moves which have hardly been "static" or "stand in place".

Are you suggesting that the BD's hornline movement is somehow random or 'just people running from place to place'? I suspect that every movement they make is strictly choreographed, rehearsed, and perfected - much like a rectilinear form is.

My tuppence worth.

I respectfully disagree. The brass members of BD this year were doing much more body movement in motion than anyone I have ever seen. There have been a few very memorable body movement by the Cavaliers in the past few years. The fight club and this years rifle sequence were some of the best, but they were largely static.

I am not suggesting BD's movement was random. I have been around drum corps long enough to know that nothing is random. What I am saying is this is not drill, it's more like blocking. Some might say that a drill writer essentially "blocks". My response would be that BD seems to do this in a more traditional theater style.

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So if members of the brass pick up rifles, they are to be evaluated by the guard judge. But if members of the brass and color guard are doing the same movement at the same time only the guard will be evaluated by the guard judge?

Looking at the fact that BD received 20's in guard, the movements of the musician's must not figure into that score. While I appreciate the movement of the musician's in BD and I think it was done well, they did not move better than other guards in finals. If that would have been figured into the BD guard score, they would not have received a perfect score.

And that is my question. At what point does body movement by a musician become the domain of the body movement specialist, the guard judge? Or should the guard score and judge be eliminated, since it is inherently figured into the visual score?

OK LETS TRY 100 WORDS OR LESS...LOL..I HATE LONG POSTS..LOL

Guard= inherent in all captions

Corps proper=( visually, dance or whatever)...GE

Corps proper on guard equipment=Guard and GE Judge

Guardcore MUST stay....when we didnt have it although inherent was hard to measure progress or lack there of. no specifics for staff or members plus not fair 40 members out of 150 dont have their own caption ESPECIALLY how much nweight it carries.

Did I do it?..lol....YES>>>>WHEW

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