World Class Motivation

[wjk1946]

I have been around drum corps as a marching member, instructor, fan, and for one year, alumni corps member and instructor.

I have beeen hearing sotries regarding how the instructional staffs of corps "motivate" the members these days. In many cases, it appears they use the threat of physical penalty for making errors, such as running laps or doing push ups.

I would like to know how prevalent this practice has become.

I would appreciate it if former, or current, members of the world class corps would let me know whether the corps they were/are in mandates physicla penalties during rehearsal. If yes, what types of penalties are used.

Please, I only want to know how the corps have acted in the last year, or two, not what happened a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away..........

Thank you.

A Cavalier

[camel lips]

I have been around drum corps as a marching member, instructor, fan, and for one year, alumni corps member and instructor.

I have beeen hearing sotries regarding how the instructional staffs of corps "motivate" the members these days. In many cases, it appears they use the threat of physical penalty for making errors, such as running laps or doing push ups.

I would like to know how prevalent this practice has become.

I would appreciate it if former, or current, members of the world class corps would let me know whether the corps they were/are in mandates physicla penalties during rehearsal. If yes, what types of penalties are used.

Please, I only want to know how the corps have acted in the last year, or two, not what happened a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away..........

Thank you.

A Cavalier

Ive been to a lot of camps and clinics over the years. This may happen early on but once the season gets going in full swing they got better things to do.

[ouooga]

I read somewhere that in 2004, Madison experimented with punishing members by giving them water breaks. That's gotta be a trip to your brain! Can anyone confirm that?

[BozzlyB]

This brings to mind a good positive/negative reinforcement vs punishment discussion we had a while back. I guess shups would be punishment.

[baja]

I have been around drum corps as a marching member, instructor, fan, and for one year, alumni corps member and instructor.

I have beeen hearing sotries regarding how the instructional staffs of corps "motivate" the members these days. In many cases, it appears they use the threat of physical penalty for making errors, such as running laps or doing push ups.

I would like to know how prevalent this practice has become.

I would appreciate it if former, or current, members of the world class corps would let me know whether the corps they were/are in mandates physicla penalties during rehearsal. If yes, what types of penalties are used.

Please, I only want to know how the corps have acted in the last year, or two, not what happened a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away..........

Thank you.

A Cavalier

Should have stopped after "the last year or two". Was there really any need to the rest of it?

[ashyUechi]

This kind of "teaching" is the sign of a bad teacher. "I don't know how to make this kid better so... I'm going to make this kid do push ups! That'll teach 'em"

Do you think the membership is purposely not doing what you asked? Is that why they deserved push ups or laps? Also, if you make a kid do push ups for an error that is called Corporal Punishment. I hope that nobody is doing that to their kids. A great instructor motivates his kids to work hard because they all share a common vision. This may not be the answer you're looking for but I just wanted to add my two cents

Ashy

[tja273]

In some cases, it is a self inflicted punishment of sorts. I dropped by a BD horns/drums practice out at Mars in the first week of June. After running through a section of Laura repeatedly, the drum major announced they would run it again from the top and go all the way through. Of course, he stopped conducting at the same spot they HAD been stopping (brain fart). He finished out the piece, then dropped for 10 on the podium for all to see.

I know you said you didn't want to hear about ancient times, but this was even common back in the days of dinosaurs. It wasn't as much of a "punishment" but an acknowledgement of your mistake and a reminder to never, EVER do it again. :) I don't recall people being TOLD to do them...it was basically the honor system.

[wjk1946]

Oh, I left out I have been around drum corps for 48 seasons, so I have seen a lot.

In my 10 active years, prior to DCI, I won 9 national championships, 4 marching, 4 teaching, and 1 individual. I am still a professional musician in the Chicago area, and have held my own while performing with members of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Lyric Opera Orchestra. I am not the common, untrained fan in the stands.

I want to go on record that I detest this concept. I always have and always will detest it.

I have brought this up because of a blog I read by a mellophone player in one of the top corps published at the end of July regarding a rehearsal from that day. The member was explaining the corps had two basics blocks, the "good" block, and the "tick" block". If you made a mistake in the good block, you were sent to the tick block, which ran many of the same drills, but at a much higher tempo, and for a longer duration. If you then made a mistake in the tick block, you ran laps, or did pushups.

The member seemed to accept this as a norm for drum corps, which really made me upset. At the end the member stated he/she could hardly stand up because they were so tired.

I have made an attempt to not mention the sex of the member as to not give any clue which corps this might have been.

During championship week I was talking to a group of friends mentioning this blog. One of my friends, a long time booster of a different top level corps said, "Everyone runs." He also accepted this as a norm for a different top 10 corps, which has me wondering how commonly this is done.

I don't disagree with running. I believe it is necessary, especially in the pre tour camps, for cardio vascular conditioning. I only have a problem if it is continued for punishment reasons.

Before I get too upset, I would like to know how common this practice is.

This is why I am asking the members of the world class corps to check in and let me know.

I agree, physical punishment is the action of a very poor teacher. Fatigue does not make you better, it causes mistakes. Not only physically, but it mentally wears you down, and by the end of the season, you are a "broken pony".

If this is prevalent, I may try to start a movement within the DCI organization to ban this form of abuse from drum corps. I consider this abuse. If I had a child in a corps where I was paying the salaries of the staff through donations and dues, and I saw this, I would walk onto the field and take my child off of the field.

In the case of the blog, when the season started going downhill for the corps in question, from every report I saw/heard, the staff worked this members harder and changed virtually nothing in the show to improve the results. This is my definition of crazy, "repeating the same acitons, and expecting different results." Maybe the staff should have been running laps until they figured out how to do their job better.

I would dearly love to see this removed from drum corps, but until I know how prevalent this type of action is within the movement, I can not determine the best way to proceed.

I don't want this to become an argument as to whether this is good, I simply would like a poll from the people involved as to how often this occurs.

I will get off of my soap box, now.

Thanks to anyone who has the "guts" to speak up and let us know what your corps is doing. I wold love to see the drum corps experience be a positive experience for every young woman and man who performs. The only way to do this is to know what is happening and take action to remove detrimental actions.

[acanadeanhick]

Oh, I left out I have been around drum corps for 48 seasons, so I have seen a lot.

In my 10 active years, prior to DCI, I won 9 national championships, 4 marching, 4 teaching, and 1 individual. I am still a professional musician in the Chicago area, and have held my own while performing with members of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Lyric Opera Orchestra. I am not the common, untrained fan in the stands.

I want to go on record that I detest this concept. I always have and always will detest it.

I have brought this up because of a blog I read by a mellophone player in one of the top corps published at the end of July regarding a rehearsal from that day. The member was explaining the corps had two basics blocks, the "good" block, and the "tick" block". If you made a mistake in the good block, you were sent to the tick block, which ran many of the same drills, but at a much higher tempo, and for a longer duration. If you then made a mistake in the tick block, you ran laps, or did pushups.

The member seemed to accept this as a norm for drum corps, which really made me upset. At the end the member stated he/she could hardly stand up because they were so tired.

I have made an attempt to not mention the sex of the member as to not give any clue which corps this might have been.

During championship week I was talking to a group of friends mentioning this blog. One of my friends, a long time booster of a different top level corps said, "Everyone runs." He also accepted this as a norm for a different top 10 corps, which has me wondering how commonly this is done.

I don't disagree with running. I believe it is necessary, especially in the pre tour camps, for cardio vascular conditioning. I only have a problem if it is continued for punishment reasons.

Before I get too upset, I would like to know how common this practice is.

This is why I am asking the members of the world class corps to check in and let me know.

I agree, physical punishment is the action of a very poor teacher. Fatigue does not make you better, it causes mistakes. Not only physically, but it mentally wears you down, and by the end of the season, you are a "broken pony".

If this is prevalent, I may try to start a movement within the DCI organization to ban this form of abuse from drum corps. I consider this abuse. If I had a child in a corps where I was paying the salaries of the staff through donations and dues, and I saw this, I would walk onto the field and take my child off of the field.

In the case of the blog, when the season started going downhill for the corps in question, from every report I saw/heard, the staff worked this members harder and changed virtually nothing in the show to improve the results. This is my definition of crazy, "repeating the same acitons, and expecting different results." Maybe the staff should have been running laps until they figured out how to do their job better.

I would dearly love to see this removed from drum corps, but until I know how prevalent this type of action is within the movement, I can not determine the best way to proceed.

I don't want this to become an argument as to whether this is good, I simply would like a poll from the people involved as to how often this occurs.

I will get off of my soap box, now.

Thanks to anyone who has the "guts" to speak up and let us know what your corps is doing. I wold love to see the drum corps experience be a positive experience for every young woman and man who performs. The only way to do this is to know what is happening and take action to remove detrimental actions.

Most of the people running are the ones who subscribe to that type of crazy, not the staff. It gets results, running gets the kids in shape, and everyone recognizes it for what it is: being truthfully accountable for mistakes.

Also non-punishment pre-rep running was very common; particularly before ballads. Run, pick up instruments, play the ballad - not a punishment, just a way to simulate the tired feeling at that point in the show and difficulty in controlling slow tempo with a high heart rate.

And to the fatigue/broken pony comments: I never saw anyone finish the season broken. Its a break down during spring training and a rebuild that starts before the first batch of shows.

[BozzlyB]

This kind of "teaching" is the sign of a bad teacher. "I don't know how to make this kid better so... I'm going to make this kid do push ups! That'll teach 'em"

Do you think the membership is purposely not doing what you asked? Is that why they deserved push ups or laps? Also, if you make a kid do push ups for an error that is called Corporal Punishment. I hope that nobody is doing that to their kids. A great instructor motivates his kids to work hard because they all share a common vision. This may not be the answer you're looking for but I just wanted to add my two cents

Ashy

Having someone to mild extremely short term exercise is NOT corporal punishment.