World Class Motivation

[CuriousMe]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the discussion. It's been a hoot. I am an experienced teacher as I've had some question my experience. I don't believe in push ups or laps as a teaching tool. I get the job done without them and my kids perform to the highest level. It makes my job harder but more rewarding.

Thanks again! I'll see you in another thread.

Ashy and Classy!

If what you say is true, you'd say where you taught. I mean, if you're such an amazing teacher and your students perform to the highest levels....well please let us know. I'd love to see this group perform, maybe we could all learn from you.

Or....you're not who you say you are, which is much more likely...

[Buick]

When we would do push-ups for an individual who made a mistake the staff had us say "Thank you ________!" as we did push ups. There were certain individuals who I got to thank on a daily basis for a while. But they soon get their act straight after being humiliated like that even just a few times.

[The Other Mike]

I'm STILL waiting...

I think you're a leaker in a H/S band somewhere and needed to lash out at those of us who get it done.

I realize I'm old etc, but I've not heard the term "leaker" before ( or was that to be LURKER ?

[acanadeanhick]

I really would not approve you teaching my kids. I would probably bring my concerns to your administration. Students become unfocused because of lack of engagement. A great teacher keeps their students engaged. Isn't that the biggest part of teaching? Learning who your student are and adapting to make the strongest connection with them that you can? Isn't that the art of teaching?

Maybe the problem is how you're presenting the information? If you take yourself out of the equation then you're not allowing yourself to grow.

Reflect on your teaching practice and say to yourself "Are there any other strategies that I could use other than push ups?" Just try it and see what happens. I did and it changed my teaching practice for the better.

Ashy

Drum corps rehearsals run 4+ hours continuous.

Typical maximum attention span (uninterrupted mental train of thought) is <10 minutes.

Do the math.

[Granny Smith]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the discussion. It's been a hoot. I am an experienced teacher as I've had some question my experience. I don't believe in push ups or laps as a teaching tool. I get the job done without them and my kids perform to the highest level. It makes my job harder but more rewarding.

Thanks again! I'll see you in another thread.

Ashy and Classy!

You have a 11 posts and counting.

Your writing on this forum has demonstrated just how effective you are at persuasion. Through the power of your persuasion you have convinced...nobody.

I am officially calling you out. I will give you a pass on not telling us your specific credentials or your name. However, I think if you hope to have any credibility you will tell us at least three of specific techniques you use to "inspire" your students. Please provide us with your most creative ideas.

I think you're a fraud frankly.

[acanadeanhick]

You have a 11 posts and counting.

Your writing on this forum has demonstrated just how effective you are at persuasion. Through the power of your persuasion you have convinced...nobody.

I am officially calling you out. I will give you a pass on not telling us your specific credentials or your name. However, I think if you hope to have any credibility you will tell us at least three of specific techniques you use to "inspire" your students. Please provide us with your most creative ideas.

I think you're a fraud frankly.

This.

Not all students are equal - some respond purely to intrinsic motivation established by the culture of the group; some respond to this with some degree of physical accountability; others respond only to physical accountability. If this character isn't a fraud and truly has a group that doesn't run/pushups (yet is still capable of finishing a high tempo 8+ minute MB show) and is free of ticks/shows improvements day to day, congrats, you have a very special group of kids at this time.

But I have serious doubts about the elite nature of your group. It's a physical activity. Kids need to be in shape, for their own safety and the safety of those around them. Running helps.

[mn trumpter guy]

I have never taught in any official capacity, other than being a tech at a high school for a few years. I have, however, marched for the past 4 years in a drum corps in the top 12. I could not be more pleased with the instruction that I received from all staff, with a few exceptions where the amount of physical punishments detracted significantly from the rehearsal time.

As far as I am concerned, as long as those members who could be injured or incapacitated by physical punishments are exempted for a different punishment (ie: members with bad knees doing push ups instead of running, or when a member had a hernea, that member was exempted from physical punishments untill it was fixed over the winter camp season), then there is no problem. I always found that it cleared my head and helped me focus- especially in one occassion: my rookie year I continued past the segment, and almost ran into my section leader who was a 5 year vet with bad knees. The laps I ran allowed me to calm down, stop beating myself up, and get focused on the rehearsal again.

Obviously, not everyone responds the same to punishments, but teachers cannot be limited when something is beneficial and, in the case of drum corps, necessary for physical conditioning.

As far as motivation: physical punishments are not motivational at all, to me at least. Furthermore, giving motivational speeches not only is a 'band-aid' solution, it can hurt the group: if you give too many, the group becomes dependent on them, and will have a problem functioning effectively without them, untill the 'withdrawal' is over. At least, that is my experience. If they are not needed, though, they help big time.

Again, this is all just my experience with these issues, from a student's perspective.

[chaos001]

I couldn't disagree more. It's this philosophy that has produced a generation of undisciplined deadbeats frankly--people who have no respect for authority and a general disregard for responsibility.

a-####ing-men. that philosophy is all about feeding the ego and self-indulgence. however, it does produce really good consumers!

This comment is short sighted and ill informed.

There are two types of mistakes:

1 - A mistake made because a student doesn't have the right training or subject knowledge to complete the task effectively.

2 - A mistake made because the student is zoning out, not listening to directions, or being defiant.

The former is the fault of the instructor, and is dealt with by reinforcing the method. The latter is the fault of the performer, and it is more than appropriate for the educator to assign physical punishment for making these types of errors.

Sometimes it takes a swift kick in the butt to wake up a student, no matter what level they are performing at.

truth.

I really would not approve you teaching my kids. I would probably bring my concerns to your administration. Students become unfocused because of lack of engagement. A great teacher keeps their students engaged. Isn't that the biggest part of teaching? Learning who your student are and adapting to make the strongest connection with them that you can? Isn't that the art of teaching?

Maybe the problem is how you're presenting the information? If you take yourself out of the equation then you're not allowing yourself to grow.

Reflect on your teaching practice and say to yourself "Are there any other strategies that I could use other than push ups?" Just try it and see what happens. I did and it changed my teaching practice for the better.

Ashy

This is the very reason I'm glad I got my teaching license without going through EDFN101 or an undergraduate education program. Most education classes, as I've come to find in grad school, are a complete and total joke. If you applied even a quarter of what they suggest you do, you'd have a mutiny on your hands. What those classes teach rarely works in the actual classroom.

People need to realize that you have to have balance in your teaching...and that requires beating some ### on occasion!

[supersop]

You have a 11 posts and counting.

Your writing on this forum has demonstrated just how effective you are at persuasion. Through the power of your persuasion you have convinced...nobody.

I am officially calling you out. I will give you a pass on not telling us your specific credentials or your name. However, I think if you hope to have any credibility you will tell us at least three of specific techniques you use to "inspire" your students. Please provide us with your most creative ideas.

I think you're a fraud frankly.

Has the gauntlet been dropped? Or was that a ##### slap?

I have two simple questions for the person in question ..............

1. Do you not agree that physical fitness is important in the marching arts?

2. What inspiring methods are used to make your kids physically fit without ever forcing them to exercise?

If this person is indeed a music educator in the marching arts ......... I'm sure they are from a state like Michigan that has the MSBOA (Michigan Scholastic Band and Orchestra Association) competitions that award bands with a I, II, III or IV rating. Not to be mistaken with MCBA (Michigan Competing Bands Association) which is a mix of BOA/DCI adjudication and scoring methods. I could take 100 kids with NO program and get a "I" rating at MSBOA in a months time. It's not that hard.

I guess the biggest question is ....... what level of teaching are we talking about here? The fluff circuits? The real competing circuits? or DCI? All 3 have VERY different levels of expectations with regards to excellence and performance standards. Personally, if you are a music educator .......... I would like a video of your show please. If you're a school class teacher (math, science, etc) you have no room to judge reinforcement techniques used by DCI corps, their staff and members.

The kids who come into auditions figure out within an hour if they are made of the right stuff to do drum corps. They don't come back in January. It's as simple as that. The nice thing is ....... there are so many former DCI members and instructors out there teaching at the high school level now ........... the kids coming into auditions are not totally clueless little victims being blindsided by the evil doings of drum corps "negative reinforcement" techniques. Most of these kids have gotten a fair taste from their previous instructors, and a little talking to that informs that that drum corps teaches the way I taught you ......... only x1000. There is no mommy to go home crying to. I'm your mommy now.

Do people really forget that drum corps was born out of the military vets? Is physical fitness in the military considered corporal punishment? Is discipline, excellence, honor and commitment a set of values that no longer exist in your world? Is doing 4 hours of visual reps considered corporal punishment? Because trust me .. a 4 hour visual block in mid July is far worse than dropping and giving me 20.... or "Assuming The Position" for 3 minutes. You discredit yourself and your knowledge of what it means to be in a drum corps.

/thread

[Granny Smith]

I wonder how Jim Jones would respond to this thread.

(just a thought that made me smile)