anniem Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I think you're nearly right.I'm guessing that these 2 are a pair of 15 year old girls having a rough time at band camp. I doubt the OP is a teenager. They tend to give themselves away with their spelling and grammar choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellodramatic Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 You have to use a mix of positive and negative reinforcement. They both work and are both necessary for certain times. If somebody ticks, they run or do shups so they can be held accountable. Simple. If someone does good they will definitely hear about it. Sometimes popsicles or an extended water break may be involved. Spring training is the time to break everyone down so they can hardly move by the end of the day. It builds your muscles. There's also about a week or two stretch in the middle of tour where it's just time to get the snot beat out of you again for conditioning. That's just it. And I don't buy this thing where punishing somebody makes them physically and mentally worse because that also is an exercise in pushing through and being physically and mentally tough so you can succeed. Whenever I got punished I took it as a challenge to do better and shut them up. goodgame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Smith Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 sticks and carrots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I couldn't disagree more. It's this philosophy that has produced a generation of undisciplined deadbeats frankly--people who have no respect for authority and a general disregard for responsibility. Perhaps it would help your thinking if you thought of it as a "consequence" versus "punishment." This is a foundational life lesson folks. None of us are free to make choices without some kind of consequence. That includes both positive and negative. Sheesh, you're talking like doing pushups is the equivalent of pulling someone's fingernails out. I have worked with young people for many many years (too many to count) and the reality is that pushups may be necessary. A consequence is something that MUST "hurt." If it doesn't "hurt" then it has no effect. For example, if you knew that you could go out on the interstate and after being pulled over for going 100 mph in a 65 that the police office gave you a ticket for $1.50 and your insurance would not go up, what would you do? The pushups serve several very positive purposes. 1. It alerts the young person to be more focused in their performance, 2. It may actually strengthen them, 3. It teaches them life lessons. Having said all of that, it's critical that the instructors do this while maintaining their own attitude. A caustic, explosive anger has no part in training. Honestly, it's this lack of respect for the intellectual capability for students are what produces such mediocre ensembles across this country. These overly physical punishment oriented educational techniques shows how much energy the teachers are willing to give. So, with this laziness evident, why should we expect students to give more than they are given? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredJedi Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Honestly, it's this lack of respect for the intellectual capability for students are what produces such mediocre ensembles across this country. These overly physical punishment oriented educational techniques shows how much energy the teachers are willing to give. So, with this laziness evident, why should we expect students to give more than they are given? Hold on a minute... We're talking about, hopefully, the small minority of kids that need the physical punishment, right? If your whole group is this lazy then you've got bigger problems than cleaning a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Smith Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Honestly, it's this lack of respect for the intellectual capability for students are what produces such mediocre ensembles across this country. These overly physical punishment oriented educational techniques shows how much energy the teachers are willing to give. So, with this laziness evident, why should we expect students to give more than they are given? ^^NOT This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Honestly, it's this lack of respect for the intellectual capability for students are what produces such mediocre ensembles across this country. These overly physical punishment oriented educational techniques shows how much energy the teachers are willing to give. So, with this laziness evident, why should we expect students to give more than they are given? Some students pay attention and stay focused, many are on medications to help them, the others had parents who actually taught them how to participate in a civilized society But, some students are like a team of oxen pulling a wagon over the rockies. You can TRY and sweet talk 1000 different oxen and you might just get ONE to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredJedi Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) There'll be tears on my pillow tonight. I was expecting to read about these teaching techniques. I hope you don't let your students down the way you've let me down Ashy.... Edited August 20, 2010 by RetiredJedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 I couldn't disagree more. It's this philosophy that has produced a generation of undisciplined deadbeats frankly--people who have no respect for authority and a general disregard for responsibility. Perhaps it would help your thinking if you thought of it as a "consequence" versus "punishment." This is a foundational life lesson folks. None of us are free to make choices without some kind of consequence. That includes both positive and negative. Sheesh, you're talking like doing pushups is the equivalent of pulling someone's fingernails out. I have worked with young people for many many years (too many to count) and the reality is that pushups may be necessary. A consequence is something that MUST "hurt." If it doesn't "hurt" then it has no effect. For example, if you knew that you could go out on the interstate and after being pulled over for going 100 mph in a 65 that the police office gave you a ticket for $1.50 and your insurance would not go up, what would you do? The pushups serve several very positive purposes. 1. It alerts the young person to be more focused in their performance, 2. It may actually strengthen them, 3. It teaches them life lessons. Having said all of that, it's critical that the instructors do this while maintaining their own attitude. A caustic, explosive anger has no part in training. yet one more reason to love Granny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 It's called inspiring the student to work hard and reach their full potential. Laps or push ups are teaching through a fear motivation. you see it as fear. many other people see it as mental toughening. dear God, would you be able to handle basic training in the military?? under your definitions, every solider in our military would be doing corporal punishment 100's of times a day. and gee, they turn out just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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