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The "Tick" System


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29 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

edit: no zip code, man is that “vintage” 😆

I suspect this is one of the original packages.  The TV dinner was "invented" in 1953. 

Just read zip codes were implemented in 1963.

I'm sure some of the originals are still being sold because rubber Turkey has a long shelf life. 

 

Edited by Continental
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55 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

There is plenty you can criticize about the tick system.  But this one makes no sense.  Judges were marking down every tick on a sheet with various context indicating when/where it occurred, and simultaneously describing those same observations in tape-recorded running commentary during the show.  So how was there no accountability?

Does anyone know when judges first started using tape recorders?

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37 minutes ago, Continental said:

Does anyone know when judges first started using tape recorders?

Interested too. DCA had tapes up top for GE and tic sheets on field when I marched 74-79. Not sure about 84-85 when I came back. 
 

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4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

So you are proud that we eliminated any chance of that ever occurring... ?

The way it was . You Bet. As far as a chance, why not, get better , follow criteria etc etc. we have seen corps jump from the bottom of finals to top 5 ( Boston ) one day to the next ,unlikely just as it was BITD or should have been. There was little reasoning as to why corps would jump or fall many many points, made no sense at all and was nothing more than a different judge and opinion, without reason other than " well I called it as I saw it" Not a good reason then or now.

From your other response about the tic and accountability. There was none until criteria was attached and even then for quite sometime judges  ( some ) danced around the fact they were being questioned, I taught and judged under both abd the tic system was just as subjective as today but the difference is  a judge must answer for his or her actions. Although a judge in captions is encouraged to judge independent of others they all follow said criteria and not off on their own. 

I remember often back in the day ignoring some judges because we knew they wouldnt be judging at the end of the year or important shows and only to those we knew would. We worked off their sheets and opinions

Edited by GUARDLING
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15 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

The way it was . You Bet. There was little reasoning as to why corps would jump or fall many many points, made no sense at all and was nothing more than a different judge and opinion, without reason other than " well I called it as I saw it" Not a good reason then or now.

From your other response about the tic and accountability. There was none until criteria was attached and even then for quite sometime judges  ( some ) danced around the fact they were being questioned, I taught and judged under both and the tic system was just as subjective as today but the difference is  a judge must answer for his or her actions. Although a judge in captions is encouraged to judge independent of others they all follow said criteria and not off on their own. 

I remember often back in the day ignoring some judges because we knew they wouldn't be judging at the end of the year or important shows and only to those we knew would. We worked off their sheets and opinions . We still do somewhat but at least there's some consistency and accountability and a bit easier to move forward.

 

Edited by GUARDLING
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4 hours ago, Continental said:

Does anyone know when judges first started using tape recorders?

The first truly portable cassette player was the Sony Walkman, invented in 1979, where the user could carry it around and listen to music easily. The machines were just a little larger than the cassette itself. Recorders of that size were also around that timeframe.

When I was judging in the mid-70's, execution judges were not using recorders; they were too bulky at that time. GE judges used cassette tapes first in the box. Analysis judges were switched to tapes when truly portable records came out so they could carry them around at field level.

Guardling is totally correct in his commentary. Execution judging for most of its history had no accountability as to when a judge marked tics. The norm in the 70's was to put a vertical line on the sheet at the end of each tune, so at least the staff knew which song was being judged as the show progressed. In my marching era, there were no analysis judges. Each judge had X number of points for tics, and they had Y number of points for "difficulty", all recorded on the same sheet. In 71, on VFW sheets there were 17 points for ticks and 3 points for difficulty, for instance. 

By the time I was judging in the mid/late 70's, execution judges were able to assess group ticks for a particular event. A judge could assign from 1 to 5 tics for a particular event, based on what the judge felt the event deserved. 

It was  all subjective, only more along the lines of the  "death of a thousand cuts" as opposed to the current system.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeD said:

The first truly portable cassette player was the Sony Walkman, invented in 1979, where the user could carry it around and listen to music easily. The machines were just a little larger than the cassette itself. Recorders of that size were also around that timeframe.

When I was judging in the mid-70's, execution judges were not using recorders; they were too bulky at that time. GE judges used cassette tapes first in the box. Analysis judges were switched to tapes when truly portable records came out so they could carry them around at field level.

Guardling is totally correct in his commentary. Execution judging for most of its history had no accountability as to when a judge marked tics. The norm in the 70's was to put a vertical line on the sheet at the end of each tune, so at least the staff knew which song was being judged as the show progressed. In my marching era, there were no analysis judges. Each judge had X number of points for tics, and they had Y number of points for "difficulty", all recorded on the same sheet. In 71, on VFW sheets there were 17 points for ticks and 3 points for difficulty, for instance. 

By the time I was judging in the mid/late 70's, execution judges were able to assess group ticks for a particular event. A judge could assign from 1 to 5 tics for a particular event, based on what the judge felt the event deserved. 

It was  all subjective, only more along the lines of the  "death of a thousand cuts" as opposed to the current system.

 

 

AMEN! exactly as it was.

I thought my mind was going and trying to remember back about recorders....lol I think when I started there was a chisel  and stone tablet...lol

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On 11/28/2020 at 5:34 PM, cixelsyd said:

There is plenty you can criticize about the tick system.  But this one makes no sense.  Judges were marking down every tick on a sheet with various context indicating when/where it occurred, and simultaneously describing those same observations in tape-recorded running commentary during the show.  So how was there no accountability?

with recordings you can hear what they are talking about, and also the sheets today have far more consistent terminology. You see the tick system never had a standardized definition of what a tick was despite all the hype. it was every bit as objective as today, but recordings definitely hold a judge far more accountable. Remember the mess in 13 when at semis Crowns percussion number suddenly skyrocketed after seeing them running 6/7th all season when the big dogs gathered? yeah that caused a firestorm. and the recording is out there...good lord. That number nowhere near close to being justified

Edited by Jeff Ream
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