The "Tick" System

[Blackstar]

I can't understand changing the way shows are designed just for ticks. I always thought you were supposed to perform to the best of your ability and the shows ability. You march in step, play along with others.

I think the biggest probelm is that people would rather hear, this is good and this could be better then, this is wrong, a trumpet was late on his release etc.

[deftguy]

You would have to go back also to what one considers a blatant error. Lets say guard.....drops are not the severity as they used to be because of difficulty and multi dimensions used during a phrase. Its not just judged on SPINNING or the complexity of it. I can see i guess a few of the other things but i think it would come down to who feels what was blatant and who doesnt, who caught it who didnt.

Personally I think it would be a huge step backward...JMO

Clearly a late toss and catch would be an error. Movements that are not exactly identical (timing or body wise) between members is easy to see, and would be an obvious tic. The real issue is not many guards these days do a lot of unison movements. So the real issue is how do I apply a tic when everyone is doing something different at the same moment.

[BigW]

Based on the previous post, you would think that music arrangements are taking more risk now than they did 20 years ago. The inverse is now true because the current system is heavily weighted to the visual captions (including bleedover on Ensemble and GE Music sheets).

Less risk in terms of the actual notes and structure perhaps, but because of the greater physical and mental demands placed on the performer while performing the chart, it arguably balances out in the end.

The question then becomes whether the musical charts are so carefully concocted and written down to defer to the visual program and whether that may well be an issue with why so many people aren't as happy with some of the shows of recent vintage.

[BigW]

I can't understand changing the way shows are designed just for ticks. I always thought you were supposed to perform to the best of your ability and the shows ability. You march in step, play along with others.

Oh, shows were designed with the tick system very much in mind. Visual caption head at Westshore used to write what he termed as "sweepers" to keep judges runnign and away from the corps so they didn't have time to think clearly, look at anythgni for any length of time, and be able to tick the corps for instance.

Familiar with masking? Used as a common tactic to bury ticks behind a wall of what basically amounts to mellophone static. Oh, and let's put a HUGE, crescendoing suspended cymbal roll on the end of the phrases where the horline can't release to save their lives to cover that up, too. Seen a lot of these tricks still being used. Nearly gotten into a fistfight with utterly fruitcake-insane band parents over catching the cymbal stunt done rather repeatedly and egregiously by a group back around 1991.....

In a world that's perfect and everyone is noble, you're very correct in your assumption, but there were those who could pull out a dirty trick or three out of their repertoire to hide error and avoid ticks.

Most adjudicators appreciate a team that will perform "honestly' as you stated, and if it's a close situation, will usually favor those over those who pull the stunts, IF they can recognize the dirty trick in action. Some can't...

Edited August 20, 2010 by BigW

[BigW]

Clearly a late toss and catch would be an error. Movements that are not exactly identical (timing or body wise) between members is easy to see, and would be an obvious tic. The real issue is not many guards these days do a lot of unison movements. So the real issue is how do I apply a tic when everyone is doing something different at the same moment.

The musical term for that catch-all is "Not Playing Together" (aka NPT).

I'm certain there's a term for that visually, but I don't know it. "inconsistent approach or style?"

[jthomas666]

Based on the previous post, you would think that music arrangements are taking more risk now than they did 20 years ago. The inverse is now true because the current system is heavily weighted to the visual captions (including bleedover on Ensemble and GE Music sheets).

I love the high level of execution of tick system shows.

I love the creativity that was born out of the tick systems death.

I think the "risk" that is being taken visually (or expected by the judges) in modern times has reduced the opportunities to really write masterful music arrangements that were in full display in the 1984-1993 era. This is where I see the failure in the modern system of adjudication. The system is out of balance within it's structure.

Risk/Reward is now expected visually

Risk/Reward is virtually impossible musically ..... yet the super high numbers are still be rewarded in the design department.

There needs to be a balance like there once was ........ if that means adding a tick system back into the visual captions ONLY .... then I'm all for it (subjective or not). Otherwise, the current system needs a major overhaul.

Excellent analysis.

[garfield]

Maybe it's because I'm a percussionist, but I've always thought ticks of the drum line were MUCH better than build-up. I hear plenty of garbage in modern drum lines even as I'm totally blown away with the writing of many current arrangers. ScoJo comes to mind. But, while I agree with the concept of writing above skill level of the line, the fact is that build-up points for reaching for a performance goal does not always translate into an enjoyable experience from the stands.

[Blackstar]

Thanks BigW for a clear and concise explaination.

[Fran Haring]

Personally the tic system was even more subjective although it wasnt supposed to be. In many ways the tic was worse than this system IMO

I completely agree.

I marched during the "tick system" years (in a local-circuit junior corps and then a DCA corps).... and IMO, far too often one judge's "tick" was another's "no mistake there."

[DreaminMello]

I have marched under both systems, and I agree that a 60/40 split sounds pretty good. I have noticed that the scores are between 5-10 point with build up captions than ticks. I also see a lot more subjectivity with build up captions, and emphasis seems to have departed from a clean lick......

With that being said, there needs to be credit given for compex music and marching, and that is where build up belongs. Both systems have something to offer and I would not be adverse to a combination of both. Would love to see it, but doubtful it is gonna happen.