You know drum corps is dying when.............

[Tom Brace]

so this is the new thread where all the doomsayers and world enders (by the way 2012...just saying) hang out!!!

cool !!!!!! I like what you've done with the place.

[Plan9]

Very true, my friend. But it cuts both ways. "Some" of the n00BS and Bandos need "classic" drum corps to be old, tired, and boring (or better yet, attempt to mock it as "just marching band") in order to justify the introduction of "avant-gard", smoke machine, Miley Cyrus crap. Because, like, you know, all that military, boring stuff my DAD did, like, just BORES me, like, as much as, like, you MARCHING BAND! Eeewww!

We're just one, big happy family with young kids tearing open packages, Dad sleeping off lunch, and gramps trying to remember where he put his dentures. But somehow, despite the differences, nobody pokes fun at any one else.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Ah, the original ignorant slut is back!!

You know pal o' mine, I really don't see the plethora of valley girls on here complaining about frenetic drill and company fronts. If you can point me in the direction of that argument and I'll stand corrected...but I just don't see it.

Most of the Henny Penny crap is coming from the dinos, formitable as they are. Actually, this year (and I may be wrong) the productions were more traditional then ever, with a very few exceptions. Last year we had some exploration with the electric guitar/bass, etc but I didn't see that as much this year, mostly because it didn't work.

[Plan9]

You're still on this....?

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that some folks just didn't like their show?

I comprehend. That's not my point. Why is it so hard to believe that some fans will not like anything a dominant corps does? They won't applaud for fear of helping them do what they are already doing. It's the nature of competition.

I'm also saying that golf claps and boos and other such stuff is no clear indicator of anything when dealing with BD's situation....that's all. I completely understand someone not liking their show, it's a matter of taste. Hell, for some us, after seeing the 15th standard DC show in a row with different titles and uniforms, our eyes glaze over....we just don't try to make a point of it. See?

[danielray]

It nearly 20 years ago that I became involved in drum corps, but the last possible thing I could ever imagine saying is that both the quality of the experience for youth and the level of performances were better in my day than now.

There really is not even any comparison.

Beyond that, what is even more impressive is how the gap in the quality of experience from the top corps to those less proficient in their performance level. The amount of progress here is really amazing, yet often goes completely unnoticed.

The statements of the original poster are based on the emotion of nostalgia, rather than reason or fact. Their memory is selective, conveniently forgetting kids in even the very top corps were often traveling in unsafe conditions or being woken up in the middle of the night to push a bus, playing on instruments older then they were and surviving on bologna or PB&J for days on end.

During the years I was performing, there were actually 2 top 12 corps that literally ran out of money in the middle of tour. Zero dollars. This is absolutely inexcusable and fully irresponsible.

Bottom line, the good old days weren't really all that great, and if efforts hadn't been made to dramatically reform the activity and raise the standards across the board, there would be no drum corps today.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the opinion of those such as the original poster, in that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what is the point of detracting from what the current generation of youth are doing? What is accomplished?

There is nothing productive AT ALL in such a critical point of view... so, why not instead focus on what can be productive? If you don't like the current trends in drum corps performance, get involved with an alumni corps or one of the senior corps that might be more in line with your current tastes.

--------

By the way, to put to bed one myth of the Dinocorps fan, the idea that "voting with their wallet" actually has any measurable impact...

In the day and age where many top cops have operating budgets in the millions of dollars, any form of financial exclusion by these sorts of individuals is not really felt. It may be barely observable in a few organizations here and there that have a broad annual donation campaign, but any slight decrease here is easily made up in other areas of corps' broadening revenue streams. If you wish to make a statement by not purchasing merchandise, your gesture is instantly diluted by group of teens behind you waiting to snap up t-shirts, hats, sticks and stickers.

Some simple math....

Say 1,000 Dinocorps fans decide they are not going to make their usual purchase of about $100 in merchandise (which is a pretty high AVERAGE spend). Most corps merchandise is operating on a 2x markup, meaning that is only about $50,000, factor in fuel and vehicle maintenance, shrinkage, etc. and the actual returned to the corps on that amount is more like $42,000.

This sum represents about 0.05% of the average top corps' budget. It is foolish for any business of the size of these organizations making long-term or even near-term strategic decisions based on a potential short-term change of 0.05% or even 5%.

[Piper]

Nobody is doing it right because Hoppy says so and that's that.

[MikeN]

and......?

And what? If attendance goes down, then drum corps has died a little. If it goes up, then it's pulse is getting stronger. Sorry - wasn't trying to be subtle or pointed or anything - I think it has less to do with instruments, repertoire or uniforms, and much more to do with numbers of corps, shows and attendees. 'tis all.

Mike

[md60]

Drum Corps is dying. Less than 25 corps in world class (of which some shouldnt be) 15 corps in open class. smaller crowds. having to charge over 125 dollars to see a show to cover the costs due to lack of audience.

Stand on the side line and listen to the crowd. It wont be as loud as you think. When you sit next to a big group of family or former corps members they scream louder. so you think everyone is screaming loud. Years ago everyone was screaming. stand on side line and listen and watch,away from your group, just dont drop a pin when you do it. ha ha

Do I want drum corps to die. No. But when people pay a lot of money and dont like they have the right to express thier opinion. When they stop coming it will be dead. I got to go knead the dough to make bread now, and hang the clothes to dry and watch a rerun of I Love Lucy.

[Plan9]

It nearly 20 years ago that I became involved in drum corps, but the last possible thing I could ever imagine saying is that both the quality of the experience for youth and the level of performances were better in my day than now.

There really is not even any comparison.

Beyond that, what is even more impressive is how the gap in the quality of experience from the top corps to those less proficient in their performance level. The amount of progress here is really amazing, yet often goes completely unnoticed.

The statements of the original poster are based on the emotion of nostalgia, rather than reason or fact. Their memory is selective, conveniently forgetting kids in even the very top corps were often traveling in unsafe conditions or being woken up in the middle of the night to push a bus, playing on instruments older then they were and surviving on bologna or PB&J for days on end.

During the years I was performing, there were actually 2 top 12 corps that literally ran out of money in the middle of tour. Zero dollars. This is absolutely inexcusable and fully irresponsible.

Bottom line, the good old days weren't really all that great, and if efforts hadn't been made to dramatically reform the activity and raise the standards across the board, there would be no drum corps today.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the opinion of those such as the original poster, in that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what is the point of detracting from what the current generation of youth are doing? What is accomplished?

There is nothing productive AT ALL in such a critical point of view... so, why not instead focus on what can be productive? If you don't like the current trends in drum corps performance, get involved with an alumni corps or one of the senior corps that might be more in line with your current tastes.

--------

By the way, to put to bed one myth of the Dinocorps fan, the idea that "voting with their wallet" actually has any measurable impact...

In the day and age where many top cops have operating budgets in the millions of dollars, any form of financial exclusion by these sorts of individuals is not really felt. It may be barely observable in a few organizations here and there that have a broad annual donation campaign, but any slight decrease here is easily made up in other areas of corps' broadening revenue streams. If you wish to make a statement by not purchasing merchandise, your gesture is instantly diluted by group of teens behind you waiting to snap up t-shirts, hats, sticks and stickers.

Some simple math....

Say 1,000 Dinocorps fans decide they are not going to make their usual purchase of about $100 in merchandise (which is a pretty high AVERAGE spend). Most corps merchandise is operating on a 2x markup, meaning that is only about $50,000, factor in fuel and vehicle maintenance, shrinkage, etc. and the actual returned to the corps on that amount is more like $42,000.

This sum represents about 0.05% of the average top corps' budget. It is foolish for any business of the size of these organizations making long-term or even near-term strategic decisions based on a potential short-term change of 0.05% or even 5%.

To borrow a line from Jerry Seinfeld....."Well, now we're getting somewhere!" Great post!!!!

[chaddyt]

I comprehend. That's not my point. Why is it so hard to believe that some fans will not like anything a dominant corps does? They won't applaud for fear of helping them do what they are already doing. It's the nature of competition.

I'm also saying that golf claps and boos and other such stuff is no clear indicator of anything when dealing with BD's situation....that's all. I completely understand someone not liking their show, it's a matter of taste.

Oh, I believe that people are out there who just hate BD. Never said I didn't. That's not my point, either.

Speaking in absolutes like "people" and specifically telling a poster the truth of what he/she feels as if you've taken up permanent residence inside their thoughts is my issue.

Hell, for some us, after seeing the 15th standard DC show in a row with different titles and uniforms, our eyes glaze over....we just don't try to make a point of it. See?

Yeah, except you just did. Nice jab though.

[Todd Tanji]

The number of corps has been continually shrinking over time and it is a result of Baumol's Cost Disease.

Drum corps is a cost increasing activity and it is a bloody miracle that it even exists today.