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They probablt did do a low mark time but I was thinking of the whole corps doing it for the whole show.

Yup, when I think of a corps that took on the low-knee-lift mark time and did it extensively throughout their entire show, the first one I think of is Bridgemen. I also seem to recall Spirit using that a lot more extensively than most other corps in their early years, and then by 1980 it seemed like everybody was doing it.

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I went back and looked at the recaps for 78 Kilties and 79 Guardsmen, both corps I know used grounded instruments. It seems that both corps, as most BITD, had penalties throughout the season. For example in 1979 10 of the 12 finals coprs had a penalty

And what was that about? Last night I watched DCI's Legacy DVD for 1974 straight through. Most of the recording is a broadcast of the Midwest Championships: brief clips of the first seven corps to play with commentary by a supposed expert,* followed by the full shows of the last three corps (Midwest finals had ten not twelve competitors) and then the awards. Only one corps of the top ten had no penalties. What were corps being regularly penalized for, that they were unable or unwilling to fix?

*This was the director of the U of Wisconsin marching band, explained that the two primary differences between marching band and drum corps were 1) that corps competed with a focus on one show all season while bands entertained with a different show each week; and 2) that corps played on a field without yard lines while bands played on a regular football field.

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*This was the director of the U of Wisconsin marching band, explained that the two primary differences between marching band and drum corps were 1) that corps competed with a focus on one show all season while bands entertained with a different show each week; and 2) that corps played on a field without yard lines while bands played on a regular football field.

And now.....

Most competitive HS band programs march one show per year. There are exceptions, but this is generally a rule. Some HS bands will use a simple show just for the football games, while having a competition show. Regardless, most of the practice time and effort is exerted on the competition show.

And of course, drum corps shows are generally held today in stadiums with yard lines. Often, the stadiums have Astroturf/Sportsturf, so there is no choice in the matter. (I hated marching on Astroturf. The surface was slippery and totally unreliable, especially after rain or snow. It was broiling hot in the summer, and in winter, it was as hard as a rock. I don't know if this new Sportsturf stuff is any better.)

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Great discussion though mostly about the 70-80s era. There was some greats from the late 50's into the 60's as well - in all phases of the show. Being from the 60's, I was fortunate to have marched with several DCHOF members. The disagreements of fans today versus fans of 19XX mostly center on the music content or entertainment factor. The overall execution on the brass side between then and now is a no brainer. The corps from back then perhaps - in most opinions- had simpler books/drill design on the brass/drill side for sure. Then again - corps then didn't have the benefit of the level of sheer musical talent gathered from across the country/world into one unit - no instructional staff of 20 or so - and we practiced a fraction of the time today's corps ( DCI at least ) do. Heck most DCI corps practice more in one day than we did in a week at best. Add to that - many corps then played with older equipment - while many of today's corps have the latest/greatest versions - generally speaking.

As to the loud - there was quality for some corps of the then generations - everyone is entitled to an opinion. Sounds were different indeed on brass/percussion, but the shows tended to be electric in terms of fan reaction. I listen to a corp like Archie -1959 at Lewisburg,PA, Royal Airs 1965 at Nationals, Skyliners - at any year Dream or Preview, BS in 63, Madison from the 70's - etc. that was sheer entertainment - personally I'll listen to that over the shows of 2010 - but that is my preference. Others will say the sounds were 'harsh' etc. from back then - they also are entitled to say same.

It's been a great activity over the years and it was evolved certainly though all of us who are old or new to the activity should be concerned about the dramatic decline in the number of corps on the field. Tough to go to a DCI Championship show in Indy showcasing the best the activity has seen - overall talent wise - and see a crowd perhaps 7-8K less than what I remember seeing at shows in the 60's at Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City which had say 5 seniors/5 juniors - and those shows rocked.

Each to their own ... we enjoy what we enjoy - period.

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Dramatic decline in the number of corps on the field - no kidding. By this metric, the DCI era has been a disaster for junior drum corps. We can argue all day and night, whether this is DCI's fault. There are certainly social and economic factors, that have lead to the overall decline in the total number of corps, and the total number of marching members. (Some of this can be explained by poor community support, that I have already detailed here.) But I would argue that at least some of the decline can be blamed on DCI policies and decisions over the years. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, this contributed to the decline.

There's simply one fact that can't be denied: when DCI took over the reigns of this activity in 1972, there were 442 active junior drum corps. Now there are only about 50. I detail this decline here:

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;hl=indicators

As to what is causing the poor fan turnout and reaction - I have commented many, many times, that this is due to poor marketing of this activity. And again, I lay the blame for this squarely at the feet of DCI.

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And now.....

Most competitive HS band programs march one show per year. There are exceptions, but this is generally a rule. Some HS bands will use a simple show just for the football games, while having a competition show. Regardless, most of the practice time and effort is exerted on the competition show.

And of course, drum corps shows are generally held today in stadiums with yard lines. Often, the stadiums have Astroturf/Sportsturf, so there is no choice in the matter. (I hated marching on Astroturf. The surface was slippery and totally unreliable, especially after rain or snow. It was broiling hot in the summer, and in winter, it was as hard as a rock. I don't know if this new Sportsturf stuff is any better.)

Turf has definitely evolved. Dekalb and Birmingham come to mind immediately with regards to the original turf surface back when I marched. There was no shag and it was slick and fast. I actually loved it, then again, I was marching higher velocity than the early 80's and 70's corps were performing. This made backward marching a ton of fun. I think the type of shoes you had made a difference as well. I got a great pair from a specialty shop that our corps ordered from in Bay City, MI and I wore those shoes for all 5 years that I marched. We actually had to file down the back of the heel in order to get a superior toe height.

Back to turf, around 1988 I started to see different types of turf surfaces. There was a longer shag and the black rubber pellets were added to maintain the cushion, drainage and height of the surface. This was a bit harder to march on at first until you got used to it. Today, the turf surfaces in most stadiums are longer shag with patterns in the blade contours. This gives a well groomed grass feel and it's very very natural to march on. Also, the shoes used today have no heel whatsoever .. and this makes a huge difference in the feel of the surface.

I can't comment about the feel of turf in the Winter. I live in Michigan so marching on turf wasn't an option for us (with 2 feet of snow covering it). The only turf we marched on in the winter was in the Pontiac Silverdome and now at Ford Field. Both are totally enclosed environments with climate control.

Just thinking back to 86 and 87 .. I was always excited when we got to march on turf. Some of the fields we marched on in the DCM first tour were like mine fields with prairie grass ......... it beat the chops up pretty good no matter how good your marching technique was ..... the fields were just that bad. But it was fun :devil: The Beer Tent Cow Pasture Spectacular was always a favorite of mine :smile:

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Dramatic decline in the number of corps on the field - no kidding. By this metric, the DCI era has been a disaster for junior drum corps. We can argue all day and night, whether this is DCI's fault. There are certainly social and economic factors, that have lead to the overall decline in the total number of corps, and the total number of marching members. (Some of this can be explained by poor community support, that I have already detailed here.) But I would argue that at least some of the decline can be blamed on DCI policies and decisions over the years. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, this contributed to the decline.

There's simply one fact that can't be denied: when DCI took over the reigns of this activity in 1972, there were 442 active junior drum corps. Now there are only about 50. I detail this decline here:

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;hl=indicators

As to what is causing the poor fan turnout and reaction - I have commented many, many times, that this is due to poor marketing of this activity. And again, I lay the blame for this squarely at the feet of DCI.

To be more specific, when saying DCI (in this case) it pertains to the Board of Directors budget approvals. The CEO on the business side of DCI only gets to work with what he is allowed to work with. While that applies to all facets of the DCI budget ... you can definitely point out that the lack of funding for Marketing in the budget was the decision of the BoD (the corps).

You can also say that the current touring model is based on the Troopers touring model of that era. They were probably the ONLY full National touring corps. With Jim Jones being one of the founding fathers and in the original meetings, my bet is that this touring model was on the table right away. The only problem was the regional circuits that were so successful at keeping distances short and keeping corps on the road and working close to home for first tour. Those are all gone now, due to the DCI BoD decisions over the years and that is a major contributing factor. Corps just can't afford the budget to tour zigzagging the country for 2 months. We really started to see the fallout in the early 80's ... and it worsened in the 90's.

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2-Color Presentation was, literally presenting the US Flag. Up thru 1972 it was a required element in a Corp's show.

Color Presentation was actually presenting of the corps' National Flag .... which wasn't always the US Flag!!!!!

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It's good to know that artificial turf has improved. Because from my recollection, it could not get any worse.

The worst had to be at the old Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati. That was nothing but rubber stretched across rock-hard cement. And when it got wet, it got slippery, like an ice rink. It was really abhorrent stuff.

The school district where I live in Texas just spent about $5 million to install Sportsturf in all their fields. They did this primarily to cut costs, because they won't have to pay to resod the fields. I just hope that it holds up, and doesn't turn into a "Slip and Slide", like good-ol' Riverfront.

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