Raising DCI's Ageout Limit

[MikeD]

A common theme in the woodwinds discussion is that by having the instrumentation DCI corps currently do, the organization is excluding hundreds of people who would otherwise participate. But DCI excludes a substantially larger chunk of willing marchers as well, and no one ever seems to complain about it: young adults in the 22-26 age range. In an age where life expectancy is almost 10 years greater than it was during DCI's inception, and with people entering the workforce later and later, does it really make sense to keep the age cap at 21? Why is 21 the magic number to be considered a "youth activity"?

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of opening up this previously excluded demographic for eligibility in DCI?

DCI also excludes young adults in the 27-31....32-36...37-41...42-46...47-51. All of those are younger than me, so they qualify as 'young adults!'

[Jeff Ream]

We have DCA in some areas of the country. I would see DCI upping the age limit leading to more opportunities and more potential membership so more DCI corps could emerge. I do not see anything wrong with this. DCA is not affiliated with DCI so since this is about DCI, any DCA references are superfluous to the subject at hand. We've had DCA around for awhile. What we haven't had is new ideas on how DCI could grow.

DCI growth is good and needed as many people on this forum continue to point out. Now, it appears that to some, DCI can grow as long as it remains limited in age requirements. One circuit is growing by their own admission...and it is all age. Now, I see some of these same people against an idea which may lead to growth for DCI.

I find this interesting. I admit, if I was a DCA advocate, I would be saying the same thing. It's called protecting their flank. Got it.

we've had some ideas thrown out here on how DCI could grow. it's just few wanted to listen

[Jeff Ream]

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this thread. This thread completely hit me upside the head.

I have to keep in mind with my response, and accept that virtually everyone that graduates from DCI, have the same thing in common: the fire and passion behind musical performance for most DIES, and becomes a memory. Holding that horn up to your face, or holding a pair of stick in your hands looses all priority. Face it, this is an important backbone of this market. If everyone went pro, the stands would have A LOT LESS people in it being that weekends are the bread and butter to pros in the non-military musical performance workforce. On the other end, if EVERYONE went pro there would be a lot less garbage in the workforce, and the standards for what defines mainstream music would increase ten fold.

Ok. I understand that the age out concept exists to boot the older ones out and let the newer students in, however what if it didn't have to be this way?? What if DCI was broken down into it's own age brackets. Keep the minors 14-18 in one division, have another division for 18-22, and have another division even if it's only one corps, that has 22 and up. NOW JOHN THAT'S WHAT DCA IS FOR??! WRONG. DCA doesn't go on full tour. And for the few of us that VALUE drum corps education so highly, as vocational training, we have an option to always go back to upgrade our skills. If there was an all age DCI corps doing a full tour, I would make immediate plans within 2 or three seasons to do it. Why? Right off the bat, I'd wanna shake off this mid 90's technique of playing through the drum and focus on the rebound the way it's done today. Far less energy is being exerted, which means the longer your hands will last you, and keep you working longer in the workforce. And I would make money in a heartbeat doing this all summer.. how? OH JOHN THATS IMPOSSIBLE!! TWO WORDS.. REALITY TV. $$$$ ESP if it was only one super-group, the cult following would be huge. The moment we arrive at the starting gate, our own crowd would flood the stadium, and when we are done, would leave.

And this whole talk about DCI being so expensive?? Duh, I knew this. I didn't' come from money. I had to take off 95 from BUCS, the year i finally made it to the snareline when i was 19, after doing a year on bass and a year on quadz, so that I could save up to do DCI. Did I wait tables? uhh no.. i made the Hershey park marching band which at the time "before crossmen bit the big one during the fall of 96," had a lot of x men alum in it. I was very lucky to march with dale sellers who was our MD. dale sellers was the red headed tenor players in x men 92..the super year.. my point, if someone is determined to march dci, they will make it happen. money is no excuse.. u work for it.. and your gonna make a lot more money using your sticks then u will waiting tables. get a return on your investment!

IF dci went all age - what effect would it have on dca? i dont see one. dca is weekend only. an all age dci corps would attract 1. wealthy people "the back bone" 2. those who want to continue there vocational training on a full tour. 3. perhaps even band directors being accused of becoming soft and content, can "refresh," for a year.

Mr jeff ream - i love all ur posts, but this one: "you dont make a good career or resume playing drum corps full time at 30?" depends what u do, doesnt it :)

mr jim f - might kill interest? how about spark the interest for new corps to be started?

drillmansop06 - drum corps doesnt end mentally for some. for those few of us that go into the workforce as performers, from some of us, drum corps and what it taught us are very much part of what we do. and i like i said before, some of us would jump at the chance to get re-conditioned with todays techniques..every year for me is another season of drum corps, more plans, more playing etc. only difference is that the types of team members change and you get paid.

i cant believe the disrespect some of you openly display towards each other. omg!

mr woohoo - im really proud by your statement presenting the idea of a corps paying salary, etc.. the marines already beat ya to it :) on the other hand, if we in civilian life had to do it, the corps would have to be able to pack the stands to pay its expenses, and that would take a new set of minds to manage. esp those minds that aged out and made it in the real big music game after ageing out. by you even saying what you did: YOU GAINED MY RESPECT WHOEVER YOU ARE!

mr Scerpella - so training to play music full time to be the best is being an adolescent? just curious on what you meant.

ANYONE CAN AFFORD TO DO DCI IF THEY PROPERLY PLAN IT OUT!

wow, Ive actually taken insult to some of these posts.... as would anyone else in the same boat...

drill man sop.. if this weekend model existed, i dont feel your statement is universal... pioneer is full touring and gets smacked by surf which is only weekend.

mr. tom brace .. dca needing competition? i think dci and dca need to appeal to the masses first and learn to work together. you had a good idea, an alum division.. another idea, which doesnt take a brain surgeon to put together... one event a year... dca vs dci super card match!!!

**side note** if someone gave Bob Jacobs a zillion dollars to go on full tour, im positive they would make finals the first year if not top 8**

Mr. Jacobs has not let me down ONCE in the 13 years I have been an alum of that fine corps.

mr. animal - you can afford to do dci right now... you are a music major? play your instrument for cash.. find me on facebook, ill mentor you like i do a ton of other people and dont ask for anything in return.. why? one of my ways of giving back...

thank you...

John...if you are teaching or designing for many prgrams, then yes you can make a good career. playin DCi level drum corps at age 30 as a member isn't realy going to get it done for you, sorry.

[FrankBeMe]

The NCAA should have infinite eligibility for sports instead of the four year/five year if you redshirt thing. I want to play linebacker for Joe Paterno before he dies

Edited September 20, 2010 by FrankBeMe

[HappyDad]

The NCAA should have infinite eligibility for sports instead of the four year/five year if you redshirt thing.

It's interesting you say that. The NCAA has had many athletes over the traditional 18-22 years of age because they still had eligibility.

I would not want DCI to go to a limit on years of eligibility. I like it the way it is now. Kids can march until they are 21 or 22 if their birthday is during the season. It's a DCI tradition and with all the changes going on, it's nice to have at least one tradition you can hold to.

[JohnDonovanDotBiz]

John...if you are teaching or designing for many prgrams, then yes you can make a good career. playin DCi level drum corps at age 30 as a member isn't realy going to get it done for you, sorry.

i guess you missed what i said about the re-conditioning value if u play for a living.

[PepsiTwist]

I think they should change it so that 22 is the ageout year for everybody. It's kind of unfair that some people get to march at that age just because their birthday is during the summer, and other folks get left out.

yeah, but wouldn't that mean that you'd still be leaving someone out? What if some guy wants to march, is 22 but turns 23 on quarterfinals day? Although he was 22 the whole season, and maybe just because of the schedule and the way it worked out, was able to march the whole year before being 21 and turning 22 on his bday which was AFTER finals that year, you would then have a huge dilemma regarding age if that person's birthday were to fall on or around finals week or before the end of the season. Thus, you are going to have to basically use the exact same rule that's already in place and say "if you turn 23 before finals day, then you cannot march that season..." However, as I have learned in the past, sometimes the finals are the 3rd weekend of August... a couple years later it's the 1st weekend.

I think the June 1 (I believe) rule that is in place currently is about as clear and best it can get. Several people that I marched with, prior to this rule going though, could have marched one more year but weren't allowed to under the 21-year-old age limit, even though they had early to mid-August birthdays. A really good friend had a situation happen exactly like what I mentioned earlier. He would have been eligible to march his "age out" year as his birthday was August 17th, I think. His last year was 1992 (he was 20 the whole season) and though finals that year was August 15th, the 1993 season had finals a week later and AFTER his birthday, which would have made him 22 before finals and ineligible to march. :(

I was extremely bummed for him and how that happened, but unfortunately he wasn't the only person who had to deal with that, I'm sure. Back before we had the internet, it was a lot harder to figure out WHEN some people aged out. Now a days, it's easy to say. But back then it was like "well, I don't know... I guess I'll have to wait until they announce when finals is during year 19__." :\

In response to the actual topic - I do not believe the age limit needs to be raised. I had 5 amazing years in drum corps and I think that raising the age limit can only do one of two things. 1) make those short years spent in your drum corps "career" a bit less special. and 2) I would guess that because of this "older" crowd, there would be a lack of appreciation for the activity and the organizations they are marching with. I aged out and wanted more than anything to have another year or two. But what would have happened after that? Would I want another year again? Or would I say "ok, I had my wish come true to march another year... I'm retiring." I don't think that the activity would be as special or meaningful if the age out rule was either expanded or lifted. I think a lot of people want that extra year just because it's gone and they have no choice but to let go. It's that same feeling of wanting something you can't have. But in the case of drum corps, I think it happens at just the right age and was just the right activity for me in my career as a musician.

Edited September 21, 2010 by PepsiTwist

[Jeff Ream]

i guess you missed what i said about the re-conditioning value if u play for a living.

ok, but if you play in DCI, you've basically removed may thru August out of your money making year. And every pro musician I know makes over half of their income during the summer.

[JohnDonovanDotBiz]

ok, but if you play in DCI, you've basically removed may thru August out of your money making year. And every pro musician I know makes over half of their income during the summer.

it would be cool if you bother to read my post before you blast me... i said i would get my income from reality tv, or whatever creative way possible.

[7567BC]

I can't believe how long this thread is. It is the same old story. A few people want their childhood to linger. There's senior corps for that. At some point it becomes time to put away childish things. Don't freak out because I use the term "child" or "childish'. Think about it; there comes a time to move on with your life, your adult llife.

I marched for a few years then taught for many more. When I finally decided to move on with my life, I kind of wished I had done it a little sooner. If you want to keep hanging on in corps, then volunteer to help your favorite corps. Teach, raise money, cook, be in management. Whatever. Make that time your "lingering" years.

regarding the bigger question about raising the age limit; When is the right cutpoff? Someone is always going to be on the "wrong" side of it. And for excluding woodwinds, there is always competitive marching band for them. If I only played a bugle am I being excluded from playing in an orchestra? of course I am. but it IS an orchestra! I really wouldn't feel excluded. I hope at some point folks will stop trying to make drum corps something else. The something else already exists. Let drum corps be drum corps for Petes sake. Just my 2 cents. Today summer is officially over. Football is in the air. Have a great fall winter everyone. see you next spring.