Cavaliers vs Blue Devils

[Schickmeister]

And the Ott, for that matter. Their hornline has been extremely close to it (I thought they should have won it in 2007), but I agree that about 4 more years of this consistently high product and they'll be a force.

Word.

[SACMellos2010]

Just because someone auditions for a corps and is not asked to come back doesn't mean they are any less talented or "not good enough" to be in the line. There have been many good players be cut from one corps and end up at another because of either a style or personality fit.

I know of a few fantastic players that we did not ask back over the years for different reasons that had nothing to do with their playing ability. And we also had players that were not fantastic that were incredible members and did their job perfectly.

It is like assembling any type of team. You have your stars and then you surround them with role players to mold into a fantastic team. You are not going to take 32 lead trumpet players and jell them together when only 12-15 are going to get to play lead. Add to that many great players can only play standing or sitting and there is no way they will be as good on the move.

Lastly, I am not going to argue who won or who should've won in any year in DCI history but there are many instances where it is very debatable and I have not seen enough drum corps in the past decade to fairly argue the results. I will leave that up to the rest of you but congrats to the Blue Devils on 2 consecutive championships!!

[mobrien]

. No one has been even in the same ball park as BD since 2007.

So when Cavaliers and PR both beat them the last week of the 2008 season, they "weren't even in the same ballpark"? The judges begged to differ.

Edited September 24, 2010 by mobrien

[WOOHOO]

So when Cavaliers and PR both beat them the last week of the 2008 season, they "weren't even in the same ballpark"? The judges begged to differ.

Like brasso said, since the beginning of 2007, the Cavaliers have beaten BD twice, and PR beat BD once, so I think the judges have shown their opinion

[euphplayer07]

So when Cavaliers and PR both beat them the last week of the 2008 season, they "weren't even in the same ballpark"? The judges begged to differ.

In terms of execution absolutely not. Cavaliers beating BD at Allentown in 08 was a disgrace. Phantom "deserved" to win in 08 because they came out with a fire that I don't think I've ever seen matched by any marching group. On the first impact of their show I knew they were going to win that night. However, the execution by the hornline was no where near what BD did and I don't think anyone can dispute that.

If memory serves me right on finals night in 2008 BD won every performance caption but Percussion. I think that would make Phantom not even in their ballpark. It's just the luck of the numbers why phantom won... And lets face it... if BD's drumline scores 1 tenth higher and we aren't even having this conversation and it's a current 4 peat for BD. No one is in their ballpark.

[DCISuperfan]

If we are talking based strictly on wins and what the judges say about them, yes BD is top tier and THE corps right now. However I think some of us are forgetting that the show that wins is not always the best show in terms of entertainment, "wow" factor, and innovation that moves the activity forward. When we say same tier of corps, we should be talking about the top 5, because all 5 of those corps perform and ridiculously high levels and are not significantly better than each other at all.

[BRASSO]

If we are talking based strictly on wins and what the judges say about them, yes BD is top tier and THE corps right now. However I think some of us are forgetting that the show that wins is not always the best show in terms of entertainment, "wow" factor, and innovation that moves the activity forward. When we say same tier of corps, we should be talking about the top 5, because all 5 of those corps perform and ridiculously high levels and are not significantly better than each other at all.

Well, if we change the definition for "top tier " to " entertainment " instead of" execution that leads to high placement", then we're looking at a much more highly subjective thing regarding " Top Tier. In this new definition, according to national audiences, the 2010 Madison Scouts would then be alone in Tier One, and the 2010 Blue Devils nowhere near the top 7 Corps in Tiers. But by conventional definition, being undefeated in over 50 competitions, puts you alone in Tier One, imo.

[perc2100]

Guess they were last year. Shouldn't mean squat for next season. But, unfortunately, it does.

Gee wouldn't it be nice if we didn't start slotting corps before October?

Do you really think that saying "BD & Cavaliers are the corps to beat" is slotting, so much as just a factual statement? Those two corps are PROVEN that in the last ten years they are consistently in the hunt for a title. In the past eleven seasons, Blue Devils or Cavaliers won all but two Championships. Making the statement that those two consistently contending (and to be fair, not only contending but WINNING) corps are the teams to beat isn't slotting: it's reality.

[BDCorno]

Cadets get talent, but not individual talent at the level say BD does. what the Cadets excel at is getting that talent to go above and beyond what they thought possible, and buying into the team concept.

some of their championship corps were not the most per person talented in DCI. But they were the smartest, hardest working corps out there.

and yes, design and staff helps a lot. if you look at BD's run, many of those guys have been working together for 15 years as a team. that helps a lot

Intended or not, that was one of the better "complisults" of the BD (and of the Cadets, for that matter) I've seen. I've read a lot over the summer, and there seems to be a line of thought among quite a few people that the Cadets are the "smartest, hardest working corps out there". I don't doubt for a second that they are smart and hard working...but do you and the others really think that BD, Cavaliers, Crown, Bluecoats and others don't rival Cadets in those areas? Could we just lose the editorial "est" suffix on this subject? Props to the Cadets...they do work very hard and have proven their credentials, but I hope nobody over there gets insulted that they are "not the most per person talented".

Without traveling with ALL the corps and observing their practice habits, rehearsal techniques, teamwork and otherwise, I'd find it almost ludicrous to believe anyone who tries to make this call. I don't think it's a stretch to say that virtually any corps at the pinnacle of the activity exemplifies and achieves at a high level in all aspects of performance and teamwork. If one exceeds the others, it's in small, almost imperceptible increments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of the finalists draw from a regional and/or national talent pool as opposed to a strictly local arrangement. As with any competitive situation, the top 3/4/5 probably get the cream of the crop - but to think that BD gets first choice of talent above and way beyond anyone else is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure Cavs, Cadets and Crown get the first shot at the best in their regions and draw nationally as well. I'm sure the talent quotient is fairly even at the highest levels.

"Talent" is an extremely elusive thing to quantify at the highest levels of achievement. Simply playing higher, faster, louder and more musically (not to mention marching, spinning and dancing better) isn't the extent of "talent"...the ability to work hard, focus, push the envelope in terms of your individual performance level and to work as member of a successful team are equally important in the overall "talent" evaluation. If those qualities aren't part of the inner makeup of the marching members, there is no getting it out of them. In fact, the latter qualities are the best predictors of success in terms of winning championships and placing in the top three. Based on that, I think it would be safe to say that the BD - and other corps with long term track records of high placement - can easily classified in both the "smart, hard working" and "highly talented" categories.

During my time with the Blue Devils, we always aspired to work better, longer and harder than anyone else. Did we exceed everyone else in those categories? We'll never know, but the results indicated a level of success in those goals. From what I've seen, they haven't deviated a bit from that recipe from 30 years ago. Lots of "talent"? Sure. Smart? Yes. Hard working? Absolutely. However, they don't have the market cornered in those departments...nor does anyone else. Let's just say that BD, Cavs, Cadets, Crown and many other top groups are doing a hell of a lot right! That is about all we could safely assume.

[Piper]

Sometimes when a corps goes on the field and it's hot it's just HOT. You can't really explain the feeling. Usually when a corps comes off the field everybody is asking everyone else in the corps questions. How was the battery? How was the brass? How was the pit? How was the guard? But when you see a corps come off the field and everyone's grinning like the cat that just ate the canary you know they cooked it.