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Cavaliers vs Blue Devils


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If we are talking based strictly on wins and what the judges say about them, yes BD is top tier and THE corps right now. However I think some of us are forgetting that the show that wins is not always the best show in terms of entertainment, "wow" factor, and innovation that moves the activity forward. When we say same tier of corps, we should be talking about the top 5, because all 5 of those corps perform and ridiculously high levels and are not significantly better than each other at all.

I think it's pretty well implied that we are indeed talking strictly competitive based. All Top 5 five corps perform at high levels, but if you are implying that, say, last year BD was not significantly better than, say, Cadets, then I have no idea what your basis would be: BD was generally light years ahead of most of the pact (arguably all) last season and the year before.

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no, even with the Cadets, it's been that way for years. I know people who never could have made the cut at some other corps, but at did at Cadets because of their drive and work ethic.

and that is to be commended

"the thing about crown and cadets is i dont think their pool is completely up there with cavaliers and bd"

Serious Question- in the case of the Cadets- do you believe it's because they haven't won recently? Also- I know that usually their talent pool has been thought of as top end- has this changed over the last season or two?

I understand the whole thing about buying into the team- but I'd say that in every top corps, everyone's buying into the corps, otherwise they'd not get where they are at the end.

Also noted that people going where certain instructors are- I think from observations over the years, that seems to be more a percussion trend, people hooking up with a corps to study under certain well-respected percussion gurus. Not sure of horn line people are as quite so choosy in that manner.

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Intended or not, that was one of the better "complisults" of the BD (and of the Cadets, for that matter) I've seen. I've read a lot over the summer, and there seems to be a line of thought among quite a few people that the Cadets are the "smartest, hardest working corps out there". I don't doubt for a second that they are smart and hard working...but do you and the others really think that BD, Cavaliers, Crown, Bluecoats and others don't rival Cadets in those areas? Could we just lose the editorial "est" suffix on this subject? Props to the Cadets...they do work very hard and have proven their credentials, but I hope nobody over there gets insulted that they are "not the most per person talented".

Without traveling with ALL the corps and observing their practice habits, rehearsal techniques, teamwork and otherwise, I'd find it almost ludicrous to believe anyone who tries to make this call. I don't think it's a stretch to say that virtually any corps at the pinnacle of the activity exemplifies and achieves at a high level in all aspects of performance and teamwork. If one exceeds the others, it's in small, almost imperceptible increments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of the finalists draw from a regional and/or national talent pool as opposed to a strictly local arrangement. As with any competitive situation, the top 3/4/5 probably get the cream of the crop - but to think that BD gets first choice of talent above and way beyond anyone else is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure Cavs, Cadets and Crown get the first shot at the best in their regions and draw nationally as well. I'm sure the talent quotient is fairly even at the highest levels.

"Talent" is an extremely elusive thing to quantify at the highest levels of achievement. Simply playing higher, faster, louder and more musically (not to mention marching, spinning and dancing better) isn't the extent of "talent"...the ability to work hard, focus, push the envelope in terms of your individual performance level and to work as member of a successful team are equally important in the overall "talent" evaluation. If those qualities aren't part of the inner makeup of the marching members, there is no getting it out of them. In fact, the latter qualities are the best predictors of success in terms of winning championships and placing in the top three. Based on that, I think it would be safe to say that the BD - and other corps with long term track records of high placement - can easily classified in both the "smart, hard working" and "highly talented" categories.

During my time with the Blue Devils, we always aspired to work better, longer and harder than anyone else. Did we exceed everyone else in those categories? We'll never know, but the results indicated a level of success in those goals. From what I've seen, they haven't deviated a bit from that recipe from 30 years ago. Lots of "talent"? Sure. Smart? Yes. Hard working? Absolutely. However, they don't have the market cornered in those departments...nor does anyone else. Let's just say that BD, Cavs, Cadets, Crown and many other top groups are doing a hell of a lot right! That is about all we could safely assume.

no insult was intended trust me. I know BD works smart, the results speak for themselves. But honestly, with the talent BD has, for Cadets to even hang close, they HAVE to work that much smarter. Trust me, due to location, I know more than a few kids cut from elsewhere that land at Cadets. 91 rookies this year and top5? That's working #### smart, and trust me, it's not in my nature to compliment anything Hopkins is involved with.

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no insult was intended trust me. I know BD works smart, the results speak for themselves. But honestly, with the talent BD has, for Cadets to even hang close, they HAVE to work that much smarter. Trust me, due to location, I know more than a few kids cut from elsewhere that land at Cadets. 91 rookies this year and top5? That's working #### smart, and trust me, it's not in my nature to compliment anything Hopkins is involved with.

I didn't figure you did. Someone hit on a truth that gets missed often...the lack of a personality or style fit for an auditionee. I'm sure there is a lot of mad talent that doesn't make BD or other top groups that play or spin just as well as the ones that do, but don't make it due to personality/fit/money/circumstances or even a lack of spots available. But wow...91 rookies is a boatload. I think we had 60-some "rookies" in BD back in 1978 and we hung in there only to fall a bit short. For Cadets to do as well as they did with that many new people is impressive. Bottom line, the top groups simply get the most out of their people, no matter the talent. It's fairly obvious to see who those staffs are, for the most part. That really is the beauty of the activity...it's one in which you can outwork the competition, make more out of less and succeed. Good lessons for life.

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BD does draw some really great talent but playing great isn't enough...

When you audition for BD if there is ANY learning curve at all in visual you pretty much didn't make it! That is the way I saw it at the auditions I attended. Do not get me wrong, musicality is very important but... IF you are an issue visually then you are not a Blue Devil... :smile:

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BD does draw some really great talent but playing great isn't enough...

When you audition for BD if there is ANY learning curve at all in visual you pretty much didn't make it! That is the way I saw it at the auditions I attended. Do not get me wrong, musicality is very important but... IF you are an issue visually then you are not a Blue Devil... :smile:

How'd I make it in then?? I've always considered myself one of the top 10 worst marchers in BD history!

Jack must've been desperate for a 4th sop!

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BD does draw some really great talent but playing great isn't enough...

When you audition for BD if there is ANY learning curve at all in visual you pretty much didn't make it! That is the way I saw it at the auditions I attended. Do not get me wrong, musicality is very important but... IF you are an issue visually then you are not a Blue Devil... :smile:

How did we ever have a baritone line then? Hahahahahaha! Walked right into that one, didn't ya???

:thumbup:

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I didn't figure you did. Someone hit on a truth that gets missed often...the lack of a personality or style fit for an auditionee. I'm sure there is a lot of mad talent that doesn't make BD or other top groups that play or spin just as well as the ones that do, but don't make it due to personality/fit/money/circumstances or even a lack of spots available. But wow...91 rookies is a boatload. I think we had 60-some "rookies" in BD back in 1978 and we hung in there only to fall a bit short. For Cadets to do as well as they did with that many new people is impressive. Bottom line, the top groups simply get the most out of their people, no matter the talent. It's fairly obvious to see who those staffs are, for the most part. That really is the beauty of the activity...it's one in which you can outwork the competition, make more out of less and succeed. Good lessons for life.

here's what's really funny. I know someone who made Cadets, then went to BD. he was bored at BD ( his exact words) and this was 10 years or so ago.

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here's what's really funny. I know someone who made Cadets, then went to BD. he was bored at BD ( his exact words) and this was 10 years or so ago.

Must be more exciting to keep changing and re-learning the show constantly! Certainly nothing boring about learning whole new sets a week before finals! :smile:

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