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How will announced changes effect the corps?


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Jason leaving Colts was a HUGE detriment to the hornline and it showed the following seasons.

But you have a good point; there was more momentum and more drive. Even still, 13th to 10th in a year is somewhat of a decent leap.

Agreed and agreed. I do think that it will take a little time for crossmen's changes to get them back into finals. This is a talented and experienced enough staff to be able to do it though. The Troopers got four places better each year after their return until this last year, but it wasn't until the third year in that rebuilding project that they got into finals. Fortunately for the crossmen they don't have as far to go, but it is going to be essentially a whole new staff and a rebuilding project...and anytime you have one or both of those things it takes time for them to work their magic.

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Agreed and agreed. I do think that it will take a little time for crossmen's changes to get them back into finals. This is a talented and experienced enough staff to be able to do it though. The Troopers got four places better each year after their return until this last year, but it wasn't until the third year in that rebuilding project that they got into finals. Fortunately for the crossmen they don't have as far to go, but it is going to be essentially a whole new staff and a rebuilding project...and anytime you have one or both of those things it takes time for them to work their magic.

Unless you're the Madison freakin' Scouts! :rolleyes:

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Scouts dream team will take those 17 year olds to new heights..

Scouts guard has a ton of vets and a solid staff and by the end of 2010, 150 new apps. Jim Moore is more hands on 2011..

2011 and 2012 should be fun for all..

Scouts staff rocks......

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Let's not forget the hornlines that Jason produced at BK from 96-01. Jason is a quality hire for sure. If they can get someone good to head up the drumline they will finally be relevant again

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Really? What years was crown in the top 3 in percussion? Reliably in the top 5? Are you sure about that> What years were they in the top 5 in drums when Rennick was there?

Also, Phantom was nowhere near the top 6? Really? The only time that I remember them being far from the top six was in 2009 and they were only 3 spots out and that was a year that Rennick was there!

WIth that being said, Rennick has done incredible things at Phantom and his indoor lines were nasty good at UNT (and still are), but this other guy has had his fair share of success too in the indoor arena. Will it likely be a bit of a step back? I bet it will. Right now, Rennick is arguably the best percussion guy out there, BUT I still think that they (phantom) will still be quite good in the percussion department even though Rennick is gone and most of the people in the line will likely follow him to SCV.

As far as SCV goes, I agree about loss in the approach to playing. I think SCV made a great hire with Rennick, but I will miss seeing Vanguard drum the way that they did. I am glad that we will see that old skool approach at Academy though.

I can't find recaps farther back than 2003, which is the year after Rennick left. However, as I was marching in those years, and auditioned for Crown around the time Rennick was getting ready to leave , I distinctly remember being impressed by the fact that they had been in the upper eschelon for a few years running at the time (much like Glassmen did for a few years before McNutt left). There were even some who thought at the time that the percussion was one of the few things keeping Crown in the top 12 at the time. They fell out of finals in 2002, and the very next year Rennick bails for Phantom.

As for the comment about Phantom, if you will actually go back and read my post, you'll see that I was making that remark about Crown, who did not break into the top 6 until a few years after Rennick left for Phantom. The fact is, a lot of smaller corps quietly make it into the top 5 or 6 spots in some sub captions, but without a top 6 overall placement, its very difficult to win the sub caption trophies.

The fact is, the new guy is a little bit of an unknown. He's done great things in the indoor activity, but outdoor is a different activity. The time he spent at Spirit wasn't nearly as impressive as Rennicks time with Crown. That doesn't mean that he won't do good things at Phantom, but its pretty hard to make the argument that Phantom won't be set back by this, especially when the only caption that they were even in the top 5 in this year was percussion. I certainly hope for the best with Phantom. I like their approach to show design, and the fact that they continue to try to make music regardless of whether it will produce the scores. But if I'm a vet returning to Phantom, its hard to see this through rosy glasses.

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I can't find recaps farther back than 2003, which is the year after Rennick left. However, as I was marching in those years, and auditioned for Crown around the time Rennick was getting ready to leave , I distinctly remember being impressed by the fact that they had been in the upper eschelon for a few years running at the time (much like Glassmen did for a few years before McNutt left). There were even some who thought at the time that the percussion was one of the few things keeping Crown in the top 12 at the time. They fell out of finals in 2002, and the very next year Rennick bails for Phantom.

As for the comment about Phantom, if you will actually go back and read my post, you'll see that I was making that remark about Crown, who did not break into the top 6 until a few years after Rennick left for Phantom. The fact is, a lot of smaller corps quietly make it into the top 5 or 6 spots in some sub captions, but without a top 6 overall placement, its very difficult to win the sub caption trophies.

The fact is, the new guy is a little bit of an unknown. He's done great things in the indoor activity, but outdoor is a different activity. The time he spent at Spirit wasn't nearly as impressive as Rennicks time with Crown. That doesn't mean that he won't do good things at Phantom, but its pretty hard to make the argument that Phantom won't be set back by this, especially when the only caption that they were even in the top 5 in this year was percussion. I certainly hope for the best with Phantom. I like their approach to show design, and the fact that they continue to try to make music regardless of whether it will produce the scores. But if I'm a vet returning to Phantom, its hard to see this through rosy glasses.

When it all comes down to it, I guess this is the statement that I disagree with. To me, their paths to phantom are rather similar in regards to their experience (minus the UNT thing - which is huge) and relative success along the way.

As far as Gwaltney being an unknown, I agree and I don't. I mean I have known about him for years even though I am (or was) a tuba player and I have never been associated with any group he has worked with. I knew him because people said he was great. However, compared to Paul Rennick he IS an unknown. Anybody with the exception of Jim Cassella, Raplh Hardiman, Colin McNutt, Tom Hannum, and Mike Jackson would be considered an unknown when you compare them to Paul Rennick.

Your final statement is true. I do imagine that most vets in the percussion section at PR will follow him to SCV which I think will place a big question mark i some horn and guard players minds about what their future might hold. In the end, I think PR will be fine in the percussion caption. What worries me is their visual caption. It almost always has.

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Let's not forget the hornlines that Jason produced at BK from 96-01. Jason is a quality hire for sure. If they can get someone good to head up the drumline they will finally be relevant again

Ralph Hardimon is back at BK.

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