Why is DCI so unknown by almost everyone?

[oldschooldbc]

Sorry, but I fail to see how "Mad World" was redundant, that The Cadets "Jeffrey" in any way mimiced anyone, that Blue Devils didn't exhibit a novel approach, that Crown was a "copycat Corps", that SCV or Phantom, Blooo! or Madison didn't each present their own unique approach. And the list goes on....but you have, from your Almighty Judgement seat, proclaimed them all "boring and redundant". And why oh why would anyone try or even want to "re-create what Star did"?

OK, Amflag61, calm down. Breathe deeply. I actually sympathize with a lot of what you are saying. I think we can still have a rational discussion.

I am sure we have both been watching drum corps shows for a long, long time. We can probably tell the difference between shows. We can see how shows of on designer may have influenced each other. We can see how a particular show from a previous generation, has influenced one we're seeing today.

But here's the problem: You and I are not the norm. For every one of us, there are probably 20, 30, maybe 50 folks in the stands, who haven't been going to shows since the Kennedy Administration. Those folks can't tell the difference. They are casual fans, who are probably attending their first or second show, because a friend/loved one is a MM in one of corps, or is attending because their band director told them to. To those folks, it's all the same. To those people, one show may look exactly like the other - and after an hour of that, the entire experience loses its appeal. There may be subtle differences between the shows, but the average fan in the stands is not going to get that. And it is the average fan - not the drum-corps junkie - that pay for most of the gate receipts and souvie sales.

Why is this true? Because designers today are guilty of one of three faults. They either 1) are less willing to take risks; 2) cater exclusively to the desires of the judges; or 3) emphasize the need for visual performance over musical performance.

I agree that WC needs a corps like Bayonne or Velvet Knights. However, I don't think we will see anytime soon - if ever. Why? Because most show designers and corps directors are unwilling to take risks. Having a comedy-themed corps like Bridgemen would be taking a big risk. Would you be able to properly recruit and fund such a corps today? Possibly not. That would be too much risk. Show designers and directors would probably rather play the 400th rendition of West Side Story - that number is not an exaggeration. Most designers today are willing to simply copy-cat each other; this is a key symptom of risk-averse behavior. ("If I do what everyone else is doing, I am not taking a risk.....") To paraphrase Darth Vader, "I find their lack creativity disturbing."

Show designers today cater almost exclusively to the desires of the judges. Why? Because they have to. If they don't, and produce poor GE marks, they will probably get fired. Worse yet, the corps could fall out of the top 12 or even semis, which would be a financial disaster for the corps. Hence, we end up with shows that are uninteligible to the average fan, both musically and visually - and the activity suffers as a result.

Finally, designers today stress visual performance over all else, including musicality. And this is the segway back to the Star 1993 show. That show was an amazing visual accomplishment - but honestly, I don't like to listen to it. I can't relate to the music at all. And there are long periods, where the horn line isn't playing - in fact, they don't even have their horns in their hands. And that is a shame, because if you listen to the horn line when it does play, those people could blow. We have designers today who are trying to re-create that, because Star's 1993 is the pinnacle of visual design. Designers TODAY are trying to equal or surpass that show from 17 years ago - but can't. Hence, we have a lot of shows today that look great visually, but which are ineffective musically. The music is either so obscure, or so unknown to the average fan, that he gives up trying to figure out what is going on.

These three faults have to be addressed quickly. But this will require substantial changes by DCI's management, and the corps directors as as well, who are ultimately responsible for the product that is placed on the field.

Edited October 4, 2010 by oldschooldbc

[MikeD]

But Mike, the upper echelon wants to target band/pagentry ONLY. They specifically wrote in their G7 proposal, "It is acknowledged that creating an audience, or building an audience is NOT something to be directed to the public." So, it is clear that they are not including anyone else, by their own admission.

First off, the G7 proposal is not, as was seen by what happened, indicative of what DCI wants to do. Second, where have I ever said I agree with the G7 proposals?

[DrumCorpsFan27]

In looking at what "the audience wants," one ought to look at what brings people to the shows. What works and what doesn't. Since the late '80s, I don't think DCI has really done that. As a result, diminishing crowds at the stadiums.

I believe that the corps look at themselves as being high brow. Instead of being vehicals of entertainment, as we saw ourselves back in the day, they see themselves equivelant to college music education programs, even calling tour fees "tuition" now-a-days.

When you say "what the audience wants", what does that mean? The audience is not a single-minded monolith. Never has been. Drum corps is hardly a high brow art form, even today, nor was it back in the early 90's. You don't hear a lot of Milton Babbit, Ned Rorem, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Arnold Schonberg, etc....on the field.

Edited October 4, 2010 by DrumCorpsFan27

[Lance]

to imply that successful corps in the 70s and 80s weren't often run from top to bottom by "artiste" personalities doesn't ring too genuine.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I'm not saying that you agree with G7, but these are the people pushing DCI's direction. They have been for decades in many cases. So, I do believe it is indicative of what DCI has been doing more and more. The G7 proposal is just an extension of what has been going on for more than 20 years, IMO.

First off, the G7 proposal is not, as was seen by what happened, indicative of what DCI wants to do. Second, where have I ever said I agree with the G7 proposals?

[AmFlag61]

When you say "what the audience wants", what does that mean? The audience is not a single-minded monolith. Never has been. Drum corps is hardly a high brow art form, even today, nor was it back in the early 90's. You don't hear a lot of Milton Babbit, Ned Rorem, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Arnold Schonberg, etc....on the field.

BITD (pause while Readers skip to next Post) we played George Gershwin,Cole Porter, Richard Rogers, Leonard Bernstein, Victor Herbert, Harold Arlen, Benny Goodman, ad infinitum. Basically, music that people already knew. I don't think composers like Bartok, Stravinsky, let alone those you mentioned ever crossed our Arrangers' minds. Furthermore, if they had, I don't believe we had the "chops" to truly perform them. I remember hearing Cavaliers playing "Pines Of Rome" & "Firebird" and was really impressed. Phantom Regiment, barely an "A" Corps in the '60s became THE voice of Classical music, Santa Clara reinvigorated Broadway musicals (once pretty much the turf owned by Garfield) and an amazing Corps from Concord, CA gave us lessons in Jazz. Star? God only knows where they came from(although today the Star United Mini-Corps seems to be composed solely of Pros, on a plane of their own God bless 'em!)

My point being that today's Corps are more familiar with Music at higher levels than we ever were, and have the ability to perform it far better than the street kids of the '50s & 60's. Are we jealous? Yes & No. We did the best we could with what we were given and never thought beyond this Season/Month/Week/Day and, yes, the next 12 minutes. What the artists of today's Corps consider passe' we never even dreamed of. Can't wait to hear my next lesson!

But the fact remains that audiences (outside of insiders) still have more of a connection with Music they already know Case in point Madison 2010. Not that they weren't great in performance, but that the crowds immediately recognized and connected with that show. If I think there is a main direction for Drum Corps, it is this - educate subtly, but bring the Fans an offering of tunes they know. This is a problem. What eager young Musician wants a program focused on "comfortable" charts while longing for an opportunity to reach new levels in their personal experience?

Hey, if I could answer that, I'd be running DCI

[azul]

You mention Madison playing recognizable music. Many corps did do that this season.

Examples

Troopers had clips of Bon Jovi

Pacific Crest had "Sams Gone" from the movie "I am Legend"

Cavailers-Mad World

Crossmen-Played some very popular Metheny tunes that had been done before.

Phantom Regiment-Not everyone knows the "Old Moon in the New Moons Arms" but it sure as hell is easily accessible.

Bluecoats-Played "Aha" by Imogean Heap which was used as background music in an Alice in Wonderland Trailer as well as "160bpm" by Hans Zimmer from Angels and Demons

Pioneer-Played "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" which if you have seen Blazzing Saddles would have at least heard of the title.

Anyone else that knows another corps that did that this year please chime in on this.

It's just the interest of the people and not being exposed enough to the activity that is causing DCI not to be noticed. Still think making a movie to be released in theaters would be a great idea.

[JimF-LowBari]

In looking at what "the audience wants," one ought to look at what brings people to the shows. What works and what doesn't. Since the late '80s, I don't think DCI has really done that. As a result, diminishing crowds at the stadiums.

I believe that the corps look at themselves as being high brow. Instead of being vehicals of entertainment, as we saw ourselves back in the day, they see themselves equivelant to college music education programs, even calling tour fees "tuition" now-a-days.

Goes back to the "Year of Audience Discontent" posts which (I think) are in this thread.

Sometime in the 80s (forget when) some of us started saying DCIs motto was "Music Majors playing for other Music Majors". IOW - playing for the audience fergetaboutit.....

Also to correct a misconception: Shows BITD did not always have recognizible music. Mangiones stuff, "Channel III Suite", etc, etc was not known to the general public or even a lot of corps people. (Let's face it, we never heard of it UNTIL we heard corps do it.) BUT.... music having a recognizible melody WAS there and that made the difference. ("I don't know what that song is, but I like it".)

Edited October 4, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[audiodb]

I agree that WC needs a corps like Bayonne or Velvet Knights. However, I don't think we will see anytime soon - if ever. Why? Because most show designers and corps directors are unwilling to take risks.

I don't think so.

Bottom line is that corps will consider a risk that has a payoff on the score sheets. The kind of risks Bridgemen and VK specialized in haven't achieved that scoring payoff.

[troon8]

You mention Madison playing recognizable music. Many corps did do that this season.

Examples

Troopers had clips of Bon Jovi

Pacific Crest had "Sams Gone" from the movie "I am Legend"

Cavailers-Mad World

Crossmen-Played some very popular Metheny tunes that had been done before.

Phantom Regiment-Not everyone knows the "Old Moon in the New Moons Arms" but it sure as hell is easily accessible.

Bluecoats-Played "Aha" by Imogean Heap which was used as background music in an Alice in Wonderland Trailer as well as "160bpm" by Hans Zimmer from Angels and Demons

Pioneer-Played "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" which if you have seen Blazzing Saddles would have at least heard of the title.

Anyone else that knows another corps that did that this year please chime in on this.

It's just the interest of the people and not being exposed enough to the activity that is causing DCI not to be noticed. Still think making a movie to be released in theaters would be a great idea.

Wow...Everyone listens to different music, but with the exception of maybe "Swing Low Sweet Chariot," Bon Jovi, and MAYBE Pat Methany, if this is the best we can come up with for a list of "recognizable music" played by DCI corps, I think the topic question is answered right there, at least in part. I don't know just how much more of the Movie Soundtrack Lovers demographic isn't being tapped right now...

Potential New Fan: "Drum Corps? Don't marching bands play just like, Sousa junk?"

DCI Enthusiast: "No no, there's some very cool snippets of movie soundtrack trailer music, maybe we'll even hear 8 bars of Hans Zimmer if we're lucky!"

Potential New Fan: "Wow, how come no one told me about this awesomeness earlier?!"

Lack of exposure is part of the reason, but far from the only part. I am 100% ok with corps NOT playing Lady GaGa, Taylor Swift, or Lil' Wayne just to attract an audience, but that means admitting to ourselves that no matter how much more larger drum corps was in the past, no matter how cool it is to those on this forum, we are currently a niche activity within a niche activity.

Edited October 4, 2010 by troon8