Inside the Arc - "The Dut Must Die"

[WOOHOO]

Personal attacks have been removed from the thread.

Let's try to stay on the straight and narrow with this, regardless of your stance on duts.

Thanks!

There can be personal attacks over dutting? That's too funny!!!!!!!!!!

[perc2100]

Plea for attention... ooops wrong thread....

Seriously after reading your post I'm thinking it's more of a way for the drumline to call the audiences attention to it when they are not playing. And the only time I notice the dutting it is when the drumline isn't playing or doing much. (Usually checking the horns.)

It's actually a way for the percussionists to have a quick perfect unison understanding of tempo for an attack (and also a way for staff members to know that each individual has the perfect understand of time at any given moment for the purposes of an attack).

While I agree that dutting should no be heard from the stands, it is a necessity at times in this day and age of complexity and simultaneous demand. To make crass (and naive) arguments that musicians do it for attention is just ludicrous, although it is obvious that at times drummers dut overzealously.

[perc2100]

There can be personal attacks over dutting? That's too funny!!!!!!!!!!

This is DCP: ANY topic is prone to quickly degenerate into insults, attacks, overgeneralization and over simplification, hyperbole and stubbornness.

[Jeff Ream]

Yep. I posted earlier in this thread that they were necessary, but that there was no reason for them to be heard from the stands.

yep

[Jeff Ream]

There can be personal attacks over dutting? That's too funny!!!!!!!!!!

DCP. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.

[Lance]

i will say that dutting helps our drumline this year a lot because none of them have ever marched before and they're all freshmen and sophomores...

[XmenRam]

DCP. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.

Did you Regina-D2 lives there?

[TennTux]

The Dut is what replaced the drum major marking time on his conductor box, the result of which was an even more-annoying "thump-thump-thump" to set/keep tempo.

I complained years ago (and for years) about the DM stomping out the tempo and simultaneously clapping and yelling "Mark Time Move" as unnecessary overkill to get everyone to start at the same time. Even fans in the stands knew when to start bopping, and I think even the attendants out in the parking lots started dancing in time.

Out of the pan and into the fire, IMO. Duts are an annoying distraction that add nothing to a show. No hype, no groove, nothing, IMO.

Thank you FTD!! I'm in the camp of "Not a fan of Duts"....

As for the DM "marking time on the conductor's box" (Or as you've worded, " stomping out the tempo and simultaneously clapping and yelling "Mark Time Move" ") I agree. Which was my reason for "in tempo" vocal commands. (Sunrisers 81-85)

IMHO, the records show we did pretty good with just the "in tempo" vocal commands to start the show as well as start each number.

Just my opinions...

[Jeff DeMello]

Being a drum corps authority qualifies him as being a drum corps authority.

Hammer. Nail. Head.

If Frank says anything about audio ... you better STOP whatever it is you're doing and LISTEN. I guarantee you will learn something!

[Stryfe]

I love how this thread is so obviously a case of battery people vs. horn people and a bit of new vs. old. :)

I agree with his main point, but I think it's a red herring as far as conventional DCI goes -- I solidly believe there aren't any (DCI) instructors who want duts to be audible from the stands. Every marching group I've been in has derided the field percussion when it was /audible/. But does that mean it's not necessary? If you can't hear it and it helps them attack (do you think Phantom Regiment's percussion can't count without dutting? ... do you think they should abstain from dutting inaudibly just because they can?), why are you so bothered by it? And even still, there are moments where audible duts are indeed a nice, drum corps-ish effect. It's almost never within a ballad. I think a lot of people get so self-righteous about duts when they watch drum lines in the lot, and evaluate it as an independent musical idea - OMG THOSE DUTS ARE SO LOUD. Yeah, they're also out of context. Color guards counting is also a peeve of mine, but I usually can't see it, and if I can't hear it, either, then it obviously is a non-factor. I wish someone would write an article about high school front ensembles that bob their mallets obnoxiously, because that's distracting and there are far more natural ways to internalize pulse, but no, let's go after what percussion caption heads are already going after. The 2010 Madison Scouts had battery dutting the entire time, and there were a LOT of instances of hornline duts (OH NO!). In my Quarterfinals recording, I can hear the percussion dut a few times, and I always like the effect, which is subtle at best.

But the rest of his article seems a lot worse, to me, and suggests stinginess and dinosaur-ness, as well as another disconnect from perception and what's really going on in modern drum corps. Again, I solidly believe that groups that never stop using the metronome are waaaay in the minority as far as DCI goes. Even when the metronome is used, most groups don't want horn players, pit players, or guard members to rely on it -- it's there mostly or entirely for the battery to keep them honest. Then there's "8 and out," where the metronome simply tells the battery/DM where tempo is then exits the conversation -- the majority of drum corp rehearsal is this, especially once they start touring. Around June, the metronome is really taken away. All members in the corps learn very solidly what perfectly precise tempo is, then learn how to "breathe" with it to a certain extent with 8 and out. The majority of ballads are also almost never put to a met, at least not for the entire duration -- the DM is given a framework to consistently apply slowing down/speeding up. And if you want a solid, concrete reason why a drum corps starting a rehearsal chunk without "8 and out" is difficult and, at times, unreasonable: the front ensemble CAN'T rely on the conductor for this, and in the case of a continuous segment, wouldn't actually have to, nor would it be anywhere near their best musical interests. So for at least the sake of one part of the ensemble, it's necessary.

Edit: In reviewing his article, I kind of mischaracterized his viewpoint as being too strict, what I'll again insist is that all drum corps already follow these rules he's created! Unless he's aiming it at high school marching bands (which he's not, correct me if I'm wrong), it's a red herring. His points about ear damage are worthwhile, however. Our met operators never used headphones and the battery was not allowed to. Not terribly great.

And maybe it is, at some level, just a difference of opinion. I like the sound of modern drum corps - everything's clean. Sometimes, perfectly, squeaky, obnoxiously clean (Cavies 2002). And I listen to some older drum corps recordings where metronomes weren't a consistent factor, and I think, if that was going on today, the lack of rhythmic clarity would be railed upon... and it's by no means a bad thing. I think it's just what each group is used to. :P

Edited October 14, 2010 by Stryfe