Jump to content

DCI Tournament of Champions Format


Recommended Posts

IMHO -

I think we're trying to overthink this. It's a name - a name for a couple of shows featuring some of the best drum corps in existence today (competitively). It's a name that can be used to help market the events to try to sell a few more tickets. "Tour of Champions" does have an easy to understand, appealing ring to it that might do the trick.

Some additional random thoughts -

There are many other activities that use the phrase "Tour of Champions" or something similar: golf, tennis, bowling, gymnastics, barrel racing - to name a few. Do they insist that every participant in every one of those events be a Champion in order to participate? Would you know? Would you care? Why?

Each of the eight corps has won drum corps shows in the past. Not all of them have won the season ending DCI World Championships. But they have all won something. The phrase "Tour of Champions" doesn't specify champions of what.

While we're picking at the word "Champions" - why no issues with the word "Tour"? How many shows does it take to constitute a tour? Is 5 enough? Shouldn't they be closer together in geography or timing? Why are there other "non-tour" shows in between?

In the interest of accuracy, how about this for a name: "The grouping of five somewhat randomly timed and geographically diverse events that may possibly contain several complete 2011 competitive field shows along with additional content designed to be different than what is normally presented in your typical drum corps event performed by several current and former Drum Corps International World Champions and one champion of the now-defunct Drum Corps International Division III and a few other corps from a similar competitive ranking in 2010 all to be judged in a manner and using a system different than is used in any other 2011 Drum Corps International summer tour event (details to be determined and/or announed at a later date) including text voting"

Just rolls off the tongue, don't you think? :tounge2:

Did I miss any details?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I really got a chuckle from you guys mentioning Rich Skare!

I personally think he would have wanted it to be called "The Tour of the 2011 Grand Imperial Poobah and all of it's subsequent placing followers" :devil:

Now Rich didn't like the whole G-8 thing or the TOC and I have a lot of respect for Rich as being an extremely smart man... But I do think this will end up working out better than many here think. :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Mr. Don Acheson, DCI CEO and Executive Director,

I possess some very interesting Questions about this Tour of Champions idea in which DCI believes to be the new next thing in the activity of Drum Corps. My Questions are directly related to determination of who wins, not based upon the rubric scoring system, but as in placement and how that effects the following year or years.

Q1? If this Tour of Champions is a grouping of 8 corps who are participating, was this group of 8 based on final placement from 2010 or based upon financail means to participate at this level?

Q2? Are the remaining 14+ World Class Corps ELIGIBLE to win the DCI Title in Indianapolis or are only the 8 within this select group determining who wins the DCI 2011?

Q3? Once the final placement is announced at DCI Finals 2011, will there be relegation and promotion in and out of the Tour of Champions? (if you need clarification on what I am asking, please let me know).

I am not sure that questions like these have been asked. I possess a Master's Degree in Athletic Administration and I am reviewing this from and athletic/sport/competition determining if drum corps is a sport or activity. I was born into drum corps starting in 1966, teaching and marching from 85-93 with various organizations. I possess a crystal clear understanding of the history of DCI and have studied examined the placements and scoring of the history of DCI 1972. I respect that this is something new DCI wants to attempt hoping it catches on.

Matt Siggelow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Mr. Don Acheson, DCI CEO and Executive Director,

I possess some very interesting Questions about this Tour of Champions idea in which DCI believes to be the new next thing in the activity of Drum Corps. My Questions are directly related to determination of who wins, not based upon the rubric scoring system, but as in placement and how that effects the following year or years.

Q1? If this Tour of Champions is a grouping of 8 corps who are participating, was this group of 8 based on final placement from 2010 or based upon financail means to participate at this level?

Q2? Are the remaining 14+ World Class Corps ELIGIBLE to win the DCI Title in Indianapolis or are only the 8 within this select group determining who wins the DCI 2011?

Q3? Once the final placement is announced at DCI Finals 2011, will there be relegation and promotion in and out of the Tour of Champions? (if you need clarification on what I am asking, please let me know).

I am not sure that questions like these have been asked. I possess a Master's Degree in Athletic Administration and I am reviewing this from and athletic/sport/competition determining if drum corps is a sport or activity. I was born into drum corps starting in 1966, teaching and marching from 85-93 with various organizations. I possess a crystal clear understanding of the history of DCI and have studied examined the placements and scoring of the history of DCI 1972. I respect that this is something new DCI wants to attempt hoping it catches on.

Matt Siggelow

Matt,

His name is Dan Acheson, not Don.

An unofficial answer to your questions, in order, is:

1. Seven of this eight were chosen by themselves as the "champions", the ones worthy, the money-makers, the demand. The eighth was added for God knows why (and not because they aren't "Champions" as well). Some think they are a token thrown in by DCI to avert attention away from the fact that the other seven are known, affectionately, as the G7. They made their ideas and intentions known about a year ago.

2. Sure, the others are eligible to win the Championships, but good luck trying. According to the initial seven these "lesser" corps will never truly compete (as many say here, it's obviously because they don't want to succeed and/or don't work hard enough to succeed in winning the title). As such the 9 to 23 corps should be ignored, banished from support, and cast off to find their own way, their own "Tour of Wannabe's" if they want to. But only the "top 8" corps will make money from the TOC shows, and it's not even guaranteed that DCI will break even promoting them as well.

3. If you need clarification on who gets in and who gets out, read the G7 report for the details. The short answer is "only if the original G7 agree to the change will there be one".

I'm fairly certain that the "official" answer will be somewhat sugar-coated to mask these truths, but I would encourage your review of the long discussion here, and the myriad of opinions, for a clue as to what the general impression of the G7 report . I'm certain that, after doing so, you won't need an "official" answer to find what you're looking for.

Thus endith the lesson.

Edited by garfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I answered all of your questions, skajerk!

You won't get me to change my view of the fact that the Tour has the top 8 finishers of the 2010 Finals in World Class.....period.

If you choose to disparage one or more of the Tour members (because they have not yet won a World Class title) over a questionable choice in names - there's not a lot I can do.

Perhaps the 'Tour of the 8 Best of 2011' would be a better title next year or will that,too, fire up the people who want to see a tour of just the winners of the last decade?

A show of 7 or 8 Blue Devils corps would be........interesting........?

No hate here! I have stood and applauded the efforts of each and every winner for decades, no matter who they are or if I fully understood what I have paid to see and hear.

Its the effort and ability of each and every corps member that I applaud, they don't have to all be winners!

But was the Tour name a bad choice of words?

DCI 'thought' the word Champions would be used in the promotional sense, not the literal sense.

We might agree there, but not on who is included in the tour........

"Tour of champions" Simple, inclusion of a certain organizations champions.....missing is one active champion: Madison Scouts. Crown and 'coats are not "champions". They never won DCI's premiere event. Keep your opinion, say what you wish. Its not proper, not well thought out and disrespectful to the one Champion not included.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Q1? If this Tour of Champions is a grouping of 8 corps who are participating, was this group of 8 based on final placement from 2010 or based upon financail means to participate at this level?

Corps were selected for the TOC based on 2010 final competitive placement.

Q2? Are the remaining 14+ World Class Corps ELIGIBLE to win the DCI Title in Indianapolis or are only the 8 within this select group determining who wins the DCI 2011?

Technically, all corps that enter the 2011 World Championship Preliminary contest are eligible to win the DCI title. That includes all 23 world-class units, as well as another 18 open-class and international corps. Of course, if you've studied past results as you say, you are probably aware that none of the 42 DCI champions came from a prior year's finish outside of the top 8, so it is highly unlikely that it will happen this year.

Q3? Once the final placement is announced at DCI Finals 2011, will there be relegation and promotion in and out of the Tour of Champions? (if you need clarification on what I am asking, please let me know).

The 2011 Tour of Champions is a one-year plan, with no promise of it being continued in 2012. However, if it does continue in the same form, the corps would be selected from the previous year's top 8. If the top 8 changes, the TOC lineup changes. In your terms, yes, there would be relegation and promotion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how many, if any, drum corps shows you attend or how many, if any, drum corps you support... but there is no way I would ever call the Bluecoats or Carolina Crown of 2010 non-champions (as so many seem to imply - 'loosers') because they have never 'won' a championship!

The tour is about who finished at the top in 2010 - not 1970!

The idea is to produce a compact drum corps show with proven talent and put it on the road. It is an opportunity to see the TOP 8 corps of 2010. WHY are you against that? Would a tour of just the winning corps of 2000 thru 2010 be more to your liking - if it could be done?

Champion was, perhaps, a poor choice of words by DCI. Agreed.

But, Champion or Looser - that is all you will consider? It should only be about the current WINNER or a tour of revived past 'winners' from decades ago? No current crowd favorites or corps that really pushed for the top at Finals in 2010?

But, why the hang-up on the word? And why slice/dice/mutilate/disparage the fact that these 8 corps DID finish at the top in 2010?

Are you trying to tell me that because my favorite Chicago Cubs baseball team won the World Series in 1907 and 1908 they are, and always will be considered, world champions? I consider baseball 'champions' to be the current WS holder and the teams that did the best last year. This year might have completely different results!

The "Tour of Loosers" would've been a much better title. All those corps are definitely "loosers."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a few observations and theories on this whole Tour of Champions.

1) I don't mind the name (Tour of Champions), but it would be less offensive to those who take it literally, and more meaningful if the name were Elite 8 (or Super 8). The idea is to represent the top eight corps from the previous year, not to make a claim about being Champions when some of those corps have never won a DCI Championship. I realize that this is not the intended claim, but it helps when the title is more obvious.

2) I have said before, and will say it again, that the model being used here is bad for DCI. Here we are, the fans, all excited to see some drum corps, and some of the best in the activity have left their home states and regions to travel to Texas for the opening show.

Problem number 1 with this is the alienation of local, regional, and statewide fans that are ready to come see a show, and now must wait until these corps make it back from the west. I really believe that all drum corps, no matter what level, should try to begin their seasons in their home region, even if it means there are only 4 or 5 corps at the show, and perhaps only one of those is a World Class corps. So what? People will come out to see the early shows. This is when we are most excited to get out and catch the excitement.

Problem number 2 with this model is cost. Will the corps that place top 8 at DCI Finals always have the money to travel this way? And what happens when they do not? My greater concern is that with gasoline prices and other cost issues, I believe these TOC corps are being careless with funds. This is the reason they are now begging for more money from their fans. I am always happy to give money to a great cause, but I need to know that the organizations I give to are doing their best to stay on budget, even if that means cutting back on tour costs. Instead what I see is a willingness to travel and compete at the highest level, no matter what; and no matter where their budget happens to be set, what should be a NO is really not a NO, but a "Let's spend more" and then go to the fans and ask for the extra cash when the conditions change, or when they simply want to keep up with the "Jones'."

Problem number 3 with this model is the outcome to the show. Will all this extra "stuff" they plan to include really make the show that much more exciting? And in what way does this help the activity? Are we bringing in more fans by making TOC shows longer or by adding more features and benefits? Isn't the quality of what these corps do on the field in a competitive environment good enough? Are we saying that a drum corps show is really no longer good enough, so we must add new features to "jazz" it up bring in new fans?

I see problem 3 as a slap in the face to our activity. I think we are selling ourselves short. The very thing that the activity stands (corps in competition) is no longer good enough, and some special perks need to be added for more people to take notice.

To me the TOC idea was best when it was a one-time thing, or perhaps a once-every-ten-years thing. Now it simply feels stand-offish and segmented. Oh well, I will enjoy drum corps this summer and write some reviews based on what I see. I hope it's a great season. But DCI needs to find a way to allow corps to be more regional in the early stages of a season. I think that might help to reel in more fans. Not alienation.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a few observations and theories on this whole Tour of Champions.

1) I don't mind the name (Tour of Champions), but it would be less offensive to those who take it literally, and more meaningful if the name were Elite 8 (or Super 8). The idea is to represent the top eight corps from the previous year, not to make a claim about being Champions when some of those corps have never won a DCI Championship. I realize that this is not the intended claim, but it helps when the title is more obvious.

Excellent description of exactly how I feel. They're entitled to showcase themselves, but why 8? It's not about the name, it's about the group. And those here who take offense are generally the same group who's not yet completely healed from the events of May '10.

2) I have said before, and will say it again, that the model being used here is bad for DCI. Here we are, the fans, all excited to see some drum corps, and some of the best in the activity have left their home states and regions to travel to Texas for the opening show.

What first comes to mind is if this is how west-coaster's feel through most of their season in past years?

Problem number 1 with this is the alienation of local, regional, and statewide fans that are ready to come see a show, and now must wait until these corps make it back from the west. I really believe that all drum corps, no matter what level, should try to begin their seasons in their home region, even if it means there are only 4 or 5 corps at the show, and perhaps only one of those is a World Class corps. So what? People will come out to see the early shows. This is when we are most excited to get out and catch the excitement.

This makes sense to me, but it blows up the TOC concept, so it's a non-starter.

Problem number 2 with this model is cost. Will the corps that place top 8 at DCI Finals always have the money to travel this way? And what happens when they do not? My greater concern is that with gasoline prices and other cost issues, I believe these TOC corps are being careless with funds. This is the reason they are now begging for more money from their fans. I am always happy to give money to a great cause, but I need to know that the organizations I give to are doing their best to stay on budget, even if that means cutting back on tour costs. Instead what I see is a willingness to travel and compete at the highest level, no matter what; and no matter where their budget happens to be set, what should be a NO is really not a NO, but a "Let's spend more" and then go to the fans and ask for the extra cash when the conditions change, or when they simply want to keep up with the "Jones'."

The answer, in my opinion, is the subsidizing by DCI to make these shows happen. The theory is that these shows will bring in more money because of their nature. That extra cash flow helps pay the expenses of the corps that perform. But, as you can see, it's a timing issue and, at this point, the money is committed to the tour by DCI with no assurance that the hoped-for extra cash flow will materialize. It's not a bad plan if the shows draw the crowds to pay for themselves, which makes this season a great test. You (and I and many others) will change our tune about responsible use of show funds if the gamble is successful.

Problem number 3 with this model is the outcome to the show. Will all this extra "stuff" they plan to include really make the show that much more exciting? And in what way does this help the activity? Are we bringing in more fans by making TOC shows longer or by adding more features and benefits? Isn't the quality of what these corps do on the field in a competitive environment good enough? Are we saying that a drum corps show is really no longer good enough, so we must add new features to "jazz" it up bring in new fans?

Apparently, that's the belief and the plan at the core. In order to bring in fans they do, in fact, have to "jazz" it up. In their opinion what the activity had was not getting it.

I see problem 3 as a slap in the face to our activity. I think we are selling ourselves short. The very thing that the activity stands (corps in competition) is no longer good enough, and some special perks need to be added for more people to take notice.

To me the TOC idea was best when it was a one-time thing, or perhaps a once-every-ten-years thing. Now it simply feels stand-offish and segmented. Oh well, I will enjoy drum corps this summer and write some reviews based on what I see. I hope it's a great season. But DCI needs to find a way to allow corps to be more regional in the early stages of a season. I think that might help to reel in more fans. Not alienation.

This, and a good memory, are all one needs to know.

Edited by garfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The notion of localization is a dead issue. This isn't yesterday's drum corps and no one signs up for World Class to tour the area the corps is from. The national tour is a large portion of TODAY'S drum corps experience. I would fear a loss of interest from potential marching members were a corps to try out this "stay local longer" approach. I wouldn't pay for it; I'd find a corps that's moving across the country frequently and spend my money there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...