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Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta


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In all seriousness, could we keep this thread as a discussion of Bartok, and maybe a few other neglected composers ... ?

Regarding Bartok, I remember several people here praising SCV for being faithful to Concerto for Orchestra last year. But that work, as written for orchestra, is about 35 minutes in length, while SCV's version is, of course, only about one-third as long. There's no way around that in drum corps arranging, naturally, but the arrangers were no more faithful than a screenwriter who cuts out two-thirds of a book she adapts to film.

Just to toss out a few names for consideration: William Schuman ... Paul Creston ... Peter Mennin ... Lukas Foss ... David Diamond ... Howard Hanson ... Eduard Tubin ... Arvo Pärt ... John Carpenter. Mostly unkown (or at least under played) in orchestral circles, but some of these names jump off the page if you are a "band" person.

Out of my depth here, but I see from the links I found earlier that, of composers living in 1959, Hanson's 2nd was the seventh-most played symphony in the 1950s, and the fourteen-most played symphony in the 2000s. Creston's 2nd was the fourth-most played such symphony in the 1950s, but has fallen almost entirely out of the repertoire -- the compiler observes, "Being named Paul does not seem to be a good omen for a classical composer" (Hindemith's Mathis du Maler dropped from first to seventh in those fifty years). That compiler (a huge fan of Pärt, from your list) predicts that of symphonists living in 2009, John Adams, Thomas Adès, and Pēteris Vasks will be the staples of fifty years hence. Adams's work has become fairly well known in drum corps, but nothing by Adès or Vasks has been played. Although Adès's opera, Powder Her Face, is said to be influenced by Stravinsky and Piazzola, both composers whose works have been successful in drum corps, I don't think we'll see a faithful adaptation for the field!

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Regarding Bartok, I remember several people here praising SCV for being faithful to Concerto for Orchestra last year. But that work, as written for orchestra, is about 35 minutes in length, while SCV's version is, of course, only about one-third as long. There's no way around that in drum corps arranging, naturally, but the arrangers were no more faithful than a screenwriter who cuts out two-thirds of a book she adapts to film.

Out of my depth here, but I see from the links I found earlier that, of composers living in 1959, Hanson's 2nd was the seventh-most played symphony in the 1950s, and the fourteen-most played symphony in the 2000s. Creston's 2nd was the fourth-most played such symphony in the 1950s, but has fallen almost entirely out of the repertoire -- the compiler observes, "Being named Paul does not seem to be a good omen for a classical composer" (Hindemith's Mathis du Maler dropped from first to seventh in those fifty years). That compiler (a huge fan of Pärt, from your list) predicts that of symphonists living in 2009, John Adams, Thomas Adès, and Pēteris Vasks will be the staples of fifty years hence. Adams's work has become fairly well known in drum corps, but nothing by Adès or Vasks has been played. Although Adès's opera, Powder Her Face, is said to be influenced by Stravinsky and Piazzola, both composers whose works have been successful in drum corps, I don't think we'll see a faithful adaptation for the field!

This is DCP right? I'm quite impressed by the intellectual depth of knowledge displayed here. Who says that drum corps people are nothing more than unsophisticated "ham & eggers" when it comes to "real" music? (Actually, drum corps nuts were viewed as such years ago).

I took the SCV design team's advise last year when they encouraged fans to listen to the original source material for their 2010 production. It SO much helped me to have a real connection to what they were presenting on the field, and though I'm admittedly quite biased toward SCV, I LOVED the show, and I've since found unanticipated appreciation for the composer, his life, and his other works.

I'm already digging the "Devil's Staircase" material (a MONSTER piece), and I encourage others to get their heads ready early for a wildly exciting piece of work that SCV will be offering this summer.

Anyway, I just want to say that I'm really enjoying this discussion. I'm no real or imagined authority on classical music or classical composers, but I've certainly come to LOVE so much of it because of my decades of involvement in this activity. I'm learning much through this thread. Thanks for sharing!

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And just so everyone knows, how one determines what a "Great" composer or a "Great" work of art is a highly debated and discussed subject...without any solid answer. I feel that it's pretty much up to your own opinions, though most of those famous European composers often show up at the majority of top lists regardless of different opinions.

Personally I tend to look at "great" works and composers in terms of the new effects they had on the musical world, and not necessarily how many times they get played. Tunes by the Black Eyed Peas get played every day on the radio, but I don't think I would ever call them "great" composers or musicians just based on their popularity. I don't think you could ever make a valid argument that they do new and exciting things with their music either.

That's not to say something that is popular is not "Great". I mean heck, I feel like Duke Ellington should be on most top 10 lists.

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I little birdie gave me some data, from which I ranked the top 10 composers by count of concerts on which one of their orchestral pieces was performed between 1988 and 2008 (includes concerti and choral works w/orch):

Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus

Beethoven, Ludwig Van

Tchaikovsky, Piotr Ilyich

Brahms, Johannes

Dvorak, Antonin

Strauss, Richard

Ravel, Maurice

Haydn, Franz Joseph

Stravinsky, Igor

Mendelssohn, Felix

if you want to know which pieces were in the top 10:

Beethoven: SYMPHONY NO. 7 IN A MAJOR, OPUS 92

Beethoven: SYMPHONY NO. 5 IN C MINOR, OPUS 67

Tchaikovsky: CONCERTO IN D MAJOR FOR VIOLIN AND ORCHESTRA, OPUS 35

Tchaikovsky: SYMPHONY NO. 5 IN E MINOR, OP. 64

Beethoven: SYMPHONY NO. 3 IN E-FLAT MAJOR, OPUS 55

Dvorak: SYMPHONY NO. 9 IN E MINOR, OP.95 (NEW WORLD)

Brahms: SYMPHONY NO. 4 IN E MINOR, OP.98

Beethoven: CONCERTO, VIOLIN, IN D MAJOR, OPUS 61

Brahms: SYMPHONY NO. 2 IN D MAJOR, OP.73

Berlioz: SYMPHONIE FANTASTIQUE, OPUS 14

Isn't it interesting how Mozart is No 1, but none of his works makes the top 10? Just goes to show how prolific he was...amazing that he died at age 35.

Also note that composition No 1 has never been performed by a drum corps. In fact, only half of the top 10 are represented. And nothing by FJ Haydn has even been performed.

But why do great music like Haydn's Creation or Brahms 2, when we can do WSS again?

EDIT: Anton Bruckner came in 39th place, out of 319 composers with at least 15 performances over the 21 years. That's between Ralph Vaughan-Williams (38) and Edvard Grieg (40), both of whom have been well-represented in drum corps.

It's also interesting that Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique is in the top ten pieces but Berlioz did not make the top 10 composers list.

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It's also interesting that Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique is in the top ten pieces but Berlioz did not make the top 10 composers list.

Symphonie Fantastique is one of the earliest large-scale Program works, or a work that depicted a very specific story. In this case it was written about an artist who basically goes on a trippy and scary adventure after doing opium.

Though Berlioz wasn't really as highly touted as Beethoven or Strauss, this particular 1830 work is really THAT good and original considering the time in history.

Just as long as this thread is de-railed on a classical repertoire binge, I hope Phantom Regiment eventually puts on a Symphonie Fantastique show. :thumbup:

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Just as long as this thread is de-railed on a classical repertoire binge, I hope Phantom Regiment eventually puts on a Symphonie Fantastique show. :thumbup:

Nahhh. Never work. At best they'd get eighth, maybe ninth.

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I'n generally not a proponent of quotas, " political correctness ",and such silly nonsense, but I do find it rather odd that a Music Critic, a White, Male Caucasian himself, lists not a single Music Composer on his list here than is other than a White, Male Causasian. There is not a single Music Composer of Color on this list. Im not struck by the absence so much of recent Music Composers, as much as I'm struck by the absence of persons of Color. Where there not great Music Composers from long ago from the Far East ? From the Continent of Africa ? The Continent of Asia ? He excluded more than 3/ 4ths of the Music World in his list. According to this Music Critic, all the Greatest Music Composers of the World were from.... the West ? And all were White ? I also could not help but notice that this Music Critic writes for the New York Times. How fitting is that, when the New York Times Editorial Board frequently wants to lecture people about the need to be..... " inclusive ". Did anybody else find it odd that this list of " The Greatest Music Composers of all time " had not a single Women or Persons of Color on it ? And that it was put together by a White, Male, Caucasian, Music Critic employed by the New York Times, to boot ? The most important attribute of an thoroughly educated person is to possess intellectual curiosity ie, to always think of the question... " how can this be true ? ".

A reading of the article says this...

HERE goes. This article completes my two-week project to select the top 10 classical music composers in history, not including those still with us.

Here is one definition of classical music...it answers your questions...

classical music is a broad, somewhat imprecise term, referring to music produced in, or rooted in the traditions of, European art, ecclesiastical and concert music, encompassing a broad period from roughly 1000 to the present day. The central norms of this tradition, according to one school of thought, developed between 1550 and 1820, focusing on what is known as the common practice period. The term classical music did not appear until the early nineteenth century, in an attempt to "canonize" the period from Bach to Beethoven as an era in music parallel to the golden age of sculpture, architecture and art of classical antiquity (from which no music has directly survived). The earliest reference to "classical music" recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from about 1836. Since that time the term has come in common parlance to mean the opposite of popular music

Dolmetsch

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Steve Knob: your list ROCKS! Of particular note, Creston Sym. No. 2 (a well trimmed and arranged for drum corps first movement would knock people out...).

Someone else mentioned the whiteness of most composers. Yep - most are white. But, here is one symphony by a non-white that blew me away (and not the only one...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhtgxDPnLJ0

Typical of a fairly racist culture (which ours was when the composer, Dawson, was writing), this symphony fell out of fashion fast...check out the other movements...fine work.

I just had to come back and paste in this link to the first movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBJggt6u97g&playnext=1&list=PL6755FBFC29E239B8

Enjoy!

Edited by FHdork
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Pianist François Glorieux playing Eleanor Rigby in the style of Béla Bartók

http://www.francoisglorieux.com/music/cd01/cd01-12.mp3

and a little Something in the style of Edvard Grieg

http://www.francoisglorieux.com/music/cd01/cd01-13.mp3

Hey Jude in the style of J.S. Bach

http://www.francoisglorieux.com/music/cd01/cd01-05.mp3

I started appreciating music when I heard Eli's Comin' and A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra performances on the field. What do I know? I was a guard girl for 20 years and a dm for 7. Thanks for the wonderful insight in this thread. I'm appreciating music again :-)

edit: I used to toe tap or cusp my ears at the symphony to savour it all. Silly really. If music moved me, I'd move, applaud, smile if I liked it! With jazz and blues, I'd close my eyes and groove.

Edited by lindap
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