Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 > and really, to turn back to that number of fans and those types of shows, you'd have to move more than a few steps backwards as opposed to forwards Jeff: Thanks for supporting Lance on Page 2, Post #15 when he wrote - "it's just amazing to see the inconsistencies between what die-hards say regarding growing the activity, and what they say regarding how they want it to look like it did back when they marched." I didn't march in the 70's. hell, to be honest, I never marched DCI period. but hmmm......if attendance was higher then, but it's supposed to be "all about progress"...and "progress" sees numbers shrinking? New Coke anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 at it's core, rock drum corps is still rock drum corps. yet drum corps is losing fans. so something has been done to that core to turn people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) so again, maybe a step or two backwards is the way to go no. We were ahead of our time; 2 steps forward. We represented drum corps well in 77, 1 of 10 years that were we. We were stars before Star. We had planned to go to the 1980 Olymipics and didn't:( We folded after drum corps tour 79...entertainers until 2004. Personally; I Like Drum Corps! 2 steps forward is fine by me :-) Mr. Sanford and Mr. Downey were our instructors winter/spring 74-75. Edited January 30, 2011 by lindap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 yet drum corps is losing fans. so something has been done to that core to turn people off. There is no quantitative way to measure why numbers of fans at finals are down; there are as many factors as there are fans. However, if you believe Jacobs, overall numbers are up if you combine "all" shows. But we digress if we choose to go down that topic path, because the topic of the loss of numbers at Finals vs overall increase of numbers combining all shows was hashed out in another thread. What we need to do in this thread is to continue discussing various ways to hopefully increase the numbers at pro stadiums to a number close to the average pro stadium rock concert numbers. Because if DCI keeps their regionals and finals at pro stadiums, more butts need to be placed in those seats to justify the use of pro stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Actucker: There are certain things that are objective fact such as eating e-coli infested meat will either make you extremely ill or kill you. However, here is a challenge to you actucker so that you can set the world straight: please give us an objective, solid, without question, definition of "good" music; give us an objective, solid, without question, definition of "meaningful" art; give us an objective, solid, without question, reason why the music of Bach and Mozart, or John Cage and Edgar Verese, is that of Musical Genius and the (expletive) of Lady GaGa is mere wasted talent garbage. Please accomplish that objective task and your argument will be well founded! Otherwise, your belief that she is wasting her talent is nothing more than opinion. By the way, in defense of skewerz, I believe Lady GaGa doesn't really care about what you think of her either. When did I ever say that my comments were anything other than opinion? Now, if you'd like to have a grown up conversation about what I believe great music is and isn't, I'm open to having that conversation, but I've learned from the way you respond to opinions you don't agree with that that will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 When did I ever say that my comments were anything other than opinion? Now, if you'd like to have a grown up conversation about what I believe great music is and isn't, I'm open to having that conversation, but I've learned from the way you respond to opinions you don't agree with that that will never happen. on one hand, you say you have the intelligence to state unequivocally that Lady Gaga is wasting her talent making millions and reaching millions of fans and on the other hand you call us all juvenile? How do you think we're gonna respond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) When did I ever say that my comments were anything other than opinion? Now, if you'd like to have a grown up conversation about what I believe great music is and isn't, I'm open to having that conversation, but I've learned from the way you respond to opinions you don't agree with that that will never happen. Where did you claim authority instead of opinion? Page 8, Post #80 from actucker – “As for people disagreeing with me, that's fine. However, the average person doesn't have any idea what the difference between great music is, and what music is drivel. Its no different from any industry. I don't have any idea what makes a car a good car. That's why I listen to people who do know when I'm buying a car. If I get sick, I have no idea what the best plan to get better is, so I listen to my doctor. Having an education in a given industry gives someone a pretty decent amount of expertise in their field.” Within that paragraph you stated very clearly that most people (ie the average person) have no clue, and you (having an education in the given industry) know better than they do on what is "good" music and what is, using your word, "drivel". This is where you crossed into the realm of claiming objective expertise instead of opinion. As to having a grown up conversation, all I can think of to respond to that is Nanna Nanna Booboo. Edited January 30, 2011 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barifonium Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 When did I ever say that my comments were anything other than opinion? Now, if you'd like to have a grown up conversation about what I believe great music is and isn't, I'm open to having that conversation, but I've learned from the way you respond to opinions you don't agree with that that will never happen. Sometimes it's not what you say.. it's what you don't say, like for example "This, I believe..." You state things as concrete matters of fact, because, no matter how many times it's learned by people on the internet, the consensus is, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." You need to apply what you just said in the above quote to yourself if you don't want this "it's only your opinion" crud. I agree with your opinions on what is good music, however. There ARE emotions that are appealed to by Pop music but these emotions are often limited most often to teenagedom and can be viewed as shallow by those who are far removed from those years or never experienced emotions in the same way teens do now-days with the myriad of social changes that have happened over the years (impacting people differently at their respective ages). One can see this by the modern way of thinking: Our society has gotten very emotional (indeed it has an emotional heritage from England with the romantics), but people have also stopped trying to look at the big picture in terms of emotions, but in terms of facts. They restrict emotions to the personal, inter-relational level; it plays into the reason that people say, "oh it's fine that YOU're a christian just don't try to make me become one." What seems emotionless to you as symbolized by a piece of Pop music, may simply be an expression of a way of thinking bred out of specific facets of a particular situation that you don't understand and therefore don't like, rather than the grandiose and infinitely translatable ideas and subtleties that classical music can communicate, yet few have the depth of being to search it out. It takes an inner hunger OR an exposure to it at an early age. To put it simply, classical music is like philosophy, while pop music is like science in the types of ideas they communicate (ignoring the "intelligence" dimension ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Ok, enough devolving into dabbling in the drivel; let's get back to discussing how to put more hind ends in the seats at DCI Finals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric M. Buckman Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I really think that the last 10-13 years have been exactly what the original post deems as reaching the main stream...I am sorry, but I am tired of this...if you don't get it...then here it is...THAT SHIP HAS SAILED and FAILED. The reason we continue to argue about ### for tat is that it actually did work and when it was changed...you tinkered with exactly what was your "MARKET"...we didn't need to do anything except what we were good at...this is like Pepsi Clear...or the Ferrari Dino...great Corporations make mistakes...but those same companies recognize their failures and return to what they are good at...you can't keep beating this dead horse as a champion for a "cause"...that "cause" has FAILED...MISERABLY! The Top 12 is really the Top 6 and people really no longer care in the same passion as they did before...but yet those same people are still fighting for what really is Drum Corps...not this watered down PseudoBand stuff that we call Drum Corps of today...I get what your example is with Lady Gaga...but that is such a HORRIBLE example...we made DC easier for people to join by going to Trumpets...rather than bugles...but those same kids who play woodwinds still learn brass instruments and show up anyway...those piano players are the lead female bass drummers for such Corps like DEVS...I'm sorry but our current idea that we are going to continue to go in the WRONG Direction is sad...RIGHT the ship and move on...DCI can be saved...money or not...but, the leadership just keeps plugging along a directive that continues to fail. Yea we will do instant Encores...woohoo..whoop-de-doo...we will play POP Music...REALLY, REALLY...why don't we just sell out completely, we will let the FANS Judge...oh dear god...that really works...let's see when in CANTON guess who is going to win that show or at Diablo Valley. I give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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