Jeff Ream Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Maybe Wikileaks has a copy. nope. i looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) The DCI office is responsive and will sell you the DCI Rule Book for $35 plus shipping - as the original poster found out back in post #28. There is a bigger issue at play here - one of intellectual property rights. The rule book, the judging system and many other things that DCI as an organization has created over the years is their intellectual property. I do not understand the concept of why some people think they should have access to that material for free. As an example, DCI has spent large sums of money on developing the judging system and training hundreds (thousands?) of judges in its application. That system has been adopted, borrowed, co-opted and often directly ripped off over the years by various band and color guard circuits, one-off band shows and even some other unrelated activities with no compensation going back to DCI or the corps. I have no problem with the idea that DCI should be monetizing their intellectual property rights through licensing or other similar arrangements. A $35 ask for a copy of the rule book is not an unreasonable expectation. IMO. Firstly, you talk about DCI being ripped off in the past.. DCI didnt invent drum corps, certainly DCI didnt just pull its system of judging out of its ###. Is DCI forwarding a portion of its rulebook revenues to the creators of that intellectual property? Have other music (band) circuits adopted changes that DCI has? Certainly. Has DCI adopted changes that other circuits made? Absolutely. It goes both ways. Does any other major competitive activity keep its rules so hidden? Every major league sport has its rulebook on its web page i believe. The NCAA rulebooks are readily accessed BOA's rulebook w\ sample sheets are online. Even figure skating has its rulebook online (a massive 400 page document). ESPECIALLY with something so subjective, it becomes all the more important to make the criteria the judges use that much more transparent to the fans. Of course DCI has the right to disseminate any document it has compiled in any way it chooses, but it is incredibly idiotic when you are in the business of presenting a competitive activity to paying audiences. If its a time issue, turn it over to the fans. Im sure some would be willing to scan it and put it up, or maybe convert it into a wiki-style format. Edited February 23, 2011 by AlexL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Does any other major competitive activity keep its rules so hidden? Every major league sport has its rulebook on its web page i believe. I just did an online search: NASCAR rule books are distributed (exclusively) to NASCAR Teams and are "not" available to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd Glasgow BB Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 From a very nice lady who works for DCI... The rule book is available for purchase. It is $35 and is for contest season 2010. Aside from the rules proposals that are made each year at our annual meeting, there were 2 this year that passed, it doesn't vary much. To order you may call us at 317.275.1212 during normal business hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans87 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I just did an online search: NASCAR rule books are distributed (exclusively) to NASCAR Teams and are "not" available to the public. This is a GREAT example of just what has been bantered and discussed on here - NASCAR is a very secretive organization, and run by one family for that matter. They probably dont even give the same rule book to each team for crying out loud!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Firstly, you talk about DCI being ripped off in the past.. DCI didnt invent drum corps, certainly DCI didnt just pull its system of judging out of its ###. Yep - you're right. DCI did not just pull its system out of the air. (3-letter word beginning with A. ) Instead they invested quite a bit of time and effort to develop new systems. The build up system that was instituted in the early to mid 80's bore little resemblance to the tick system it replaced. Since then, there have been numerous tweaks and additional development work to bring us to the system currently in use. Is DCI forwarding a portion of its rulebook revenues to the creators of that intellectual property? Most of the creators of that intellectual property are/were DCI employees or outside contractors working for DCI or volunteers receiving some kind of stipend from DCI. So the answer is yes. DCI is compensating - or has compensated - the creators of that material. Those payouts are much higher than any revenue raised through the sale of the rule book. I suspect that DCI sells less than 10 rule books per year so there's not much money to go around. And now, many on DCP want DCI to give it away for free.Have other music (band) circuits adopted changes that DCI has? Certainly. Has DCI adopted changes that other circuits made? Absolutely. It goes both ways. From personal observation (going way back): seeing both the DCI side and the band/color guard side of the balance, while it goes both ways, the flow has often been significantly out of balance. IMO. Does any other major competitive activity keep its rules so hidden? Every major league sport has its rulebook on its web page i believe. The NCAA rulebooks are readily accessed BOA's rulebook w\ sample sheets are online. Even figure skating has its rulebook online (a massive 400 page document). ESPECIALLY with something so subjective, it becomes all the more important to make the criteria the judges use that much more transparent to the fans. Of course DCI has the right to disseminate any document it has compiled in any way it chooses, but it is incredibly idiotic when you are in the business of presenting a competitive activity to paying audiences. If its a time issue, turn it over to the fans. Im sure some would be willing to scan it and put it up, or maybe convert it into a wiki-style format. It appears NASCAR may not have its rules available to the public (per the other posts above). Additionally, if you go to the NFL website, there is a link on the bottom that says "Rulebook" but it only gives you a summarized "fan friendly" version. The official NFL rulebook also does not appear to be available to the general public. Those are two of the biggest competitive activities that exist and they don't seem to think it is incredibly idiotic to hold back some portion of their rules. But - at the risk of repetition: Does any other major competitive activity keep its rules so hidden? Once again, it is not hidden. It is available for $35. Just call. Operators are standing by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I just did an online search: NASCAR rule books are distributed (exclusively) to NASCAR Teams and are "not" available to the public. right. if it was, fans may figure out the wheel turns in two directions at all times, not just on special weekends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmdigmon Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Once again, it is not hidden. It is available for $35. Just call. Operators are standing by. I ordered the rules. Again, the rules I got were the standard contest rules, not adjudication rules. I am not sure about others, but I am interested in seeing the rules that pertain to judging. For example, I would love to see how DCI actually defines general effect. I don't want speculation. I don't think most people have a problem with not knowing the official definition of a bugle. Maybe they do. If you're interested in that, order the $35 2010 Contest Rules. It will come to you in a neat package containing a color laser jet printed copy. From what I have gathered after years of reading this forum, many people want to see the man behind the curtain--the criteria and terminology used in judging the corps on the field. Many people may not care. That's cool. I just want to know to satisfy my own curiosity. FYI, the rules one can purchase for $35 are the equivalent of the five page WGI percussion contest rules that are available for free, in case anyone is wondering. Granted, WGI's free rules are about a fifth the length of DCI's. I am still waiting on DCI to respond to my request to fix my purchase. Maybe the "goods" aren't available for purchase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 i don't even like looking at my own grading rubrics. they give me a headache. and students know they only provide the illusion of objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd Glasgow BB Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 I ordered the rules. Again, the rules I got were the standard contest rules, not adjudication rules. I am not sure about others, but I am interested in seeing the rules that pertain to judging. For example, I would love to see how DCI actually defines general effect. I don't want speculation. I don't think most people have a problem with not knowing the official definition of a bugle. Maybe they do. If you're interested in that, order the $35 2010 Contest Rules. It will come to you in a neat package containing a color laser jet printed copy. From what I have gathered after years of reading this forum, many people want to see the man behind the curtain--the criteria and terminology used in judging the corps on the field. Many people may not care. That's cool. I just want to know to satisfy my own curiosity. FYI, the rules one can purchase for $35 are the equivalent of the five page WGI percussion contest rules that are available for free, in case anyone is wondering. Granted, WGI's free rules are about a fifth the length of DCI's. I am still waiting on DCI to respond to my request to fix my purchase. Maybe the "goods" aren't available for purchase. So it looks like my quest to better understand what the judges look for in a show won't be answered by the document DCI are selling for $35? That's a real shame. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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