contrajedi8 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm curious about this as well - in the grand scheme of things, I doubt that the mandrels and such take up much space in the elves' workshop, but with minimal orders, they probably move further to the back of the shelves. A related fear would be the (as far as I know) special case of the DEG SuperMag 4V contras, as the valves are from Willson. Anyone know if this was some special arrangement, or was the volume so low that DEG just ordered a cluster from the Willson catalog? Would that arrangement carry through on special order items? Very curious, as this is what I would consider the pinnacle of the G contra. You and me both, pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 No need to save the tooling. G bugles are dead in the water because the manufactures have brainwashed the music educators that G bugles cannot play in tune and they are cheaper and more economical to produce making it cost effective for the corps. Sad to say but we have seen the last of G bugles in what is left of drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Kilties on G three valve instruments with a whole new line purchased over the last 36 months from Kanstul; plus 9 DEG SuperMag contras among the mix. It ain't dead until we say so, along with the Marine D & B Corps (as another example). No need to save the tooling. G bugles are dead in the water because the manufactures have brainwashed the music educators that G bugles cannot play in tune and they are cheaper and more economical to produce making it cost effective for the corps. Sad to say but we have seen the last of G bugles in what is left of drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Kilties on G three valve instruments with a whole new line purchased over the last 36 months from Kanstul; plus 9 DEG SuperMag contras among the mix. It ain't dead until we say so, along with the Marine D & B Corps (as another example). And, the Marines on 2-valve G no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 And, the Marines on 2-valve G no less. "Personally, I do not care if we went for six valves; as long as it is in G, we still have the same sound but with more versatility. We would still have drum and bugle corps!" -Hy Dreitzer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monoemono Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Now we play Trumpets. Good ol' band-o-matic trumpets, and we've stopped pretending that "soprano bugles" are bugles. They may not have been true 'bugles', but as someone who knows something about this stuff, I dare you to play my old two-valve G DEG and call it a 'trumpet'! It's....well....perhaps something else entirely. Though, one could argue it's as close to a bugle as a modern trumpet is to its valveless counterpart from the baroque. SOME manufacturers DID try to make them conical, and those were rejected as not "projecting enough." (I have no examples; only recollections of conversations here and there, 15-20 years ago. I played low brass, which had clear conical tone [tuas/euphs] and less-conical tone [bari].) Recall that "screech soprano playing" was practically a requirement BITD. Do you think they could get that sound on a Cornet? (A true[r] bugle!) HECK NO. Therefore, "soprano bugles" were NEVER BUGLES AT ALL. I think you could get that sound on a Conn Connstellation cornet. Which is sort of a cornet-in-name-only, not really conical either. They remind me a lot of the old drum corps instruments, actually, so much so that I wonder if there wasn't some part-swapping involved with these instruments and G drum corps instruments. I guess my point is that a lot of this stuff is "in-name-only" at this point. They were called soprano bugles because they were intended to be the soprano voice in a bugle group, just like we continued to call it a trumpet after we chopped it down by two-thirds, stuck valves on it, and placed it back into the orchestra. Conclusion: Soprano bugles BITD had all of the problems of a trombonist trying to play their entire scale as if the slide were extended from 4th to 7th position. I'd like to see more about this. I can definitely buy this about the three valve instruments (I thought the 3 valve DEG sops were inferior two the two valve ones, aside from that whole complete chromatic scale thing), but weren't the two valve ones made pretty much from the ground up, valve sections excepted? Too bad Ziggy K. isn't around these parts to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 They may not have been true 'bugles', but as someone who knows something about this stuff, I dare you to play my old two-valve G DEG and call it a 'trumpet'! It's....well....perhaps something else entirely. Oh, I believe you! I'm not going to argue with someone who actually played these instruments. My soprano knowledge is the sum total of talking to people like yourself, and listening to them up close and personal. I think you could get that sound on a Conn Connstellation cornet. Which is sort of a cornet-in-name-only, not really conical either. They remind me a lot of the old drum corps instruments, actually, so much so that I wonder if there wasn't some part-swapping involved with these instruments and G drum corps instruments. I guess my point is that a lot of this stuff is "in-name-only" at this point. They were called soprano bugles because they were intended to be the soprano voice in a bugle group, just like we continued to call it a trumpet after we chopped it down by two-thirds, stuck valves on it, and placed it back into the orchestra. Yup. I'd like to see more about this. I can definitely buy this about the three valve instruments (I thought the 3 valve DEG sops were inferior two the two valve ones, aside from that whole complete chromatic scale thing), but weren't the two valve ones made pretty much from the ground up, valve sections excepted? Too bad Ziggy K. isn't around these parts to ask. I'd love it if Zig chimed in here. If the valve section is "model X", and the bore through the valves matter, then the bore entering and leaving will also be of model X. Please note my main assumption (which may be completely FALSE): That the bore in the valve section matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monoemono Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'd love it if Zig chimed in here. If the valve section is "model X", and the bore through the valves matter, then the bore entering and leaving will also be of model X. Please note my main assumption (which may be completely FALSE): That the bore in the valve section matters! I assume it would, as it would have to be the right size at the point you are arriving there with the tubing. I mention the valve sections specifically, because in my limited knowledge of horn making I have heard of custom horn makers (Lawler, for example) using pre-made valve sections from large commercial operations (such as Getzen), and then fabricating the rest of the horn themselves. It would be interesting to hear from those who designed/built these horns from different companies. I guess it is entirely possible that there were some horns just "Frankensteined" together out of existing parts (trumpets, cornets) and other brands whose parts were custom-created for the purpose. Anyone here have any experience, or know someone that does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanstulbrass Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 No need to save the tooling. G bugles are dead in the water because the manufactures have brainwashed the music educators that G bugles cannot play in tune and they are cheaper and more economical to produce making it cost effective for the corps. Sad to say but we have seen the last of G bugles in what is left of drum corps. It might be interesting to note that the manufactures responsible for "brainwashing" the music educators no longer (or did not ever) make G bugles. There is no need to throw out obsolete tooling - keeping track of unused or rarely-used tooling is important, however. Manufacturing these parts in small quantities is expensive. Kanstul is now the only manufacturer still willing to make G bugles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) I dream of one day starting a rock band that uses lutes and mandolins Patience my Man... patience. Edited May 11, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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