Will thunderous goo become less of a problem?

[chaddyt]

IMO there is no 'issue'...this is just the usual cast of anti-electronics people on DCP trying to make something from nothing.

I'm normally with you Mike, but on this we disagree.

There is an issue. APDs didn't used to blow out my speakers in years past. I wasn't deafened at semi's in years past. There is a balance issue currently.

One that I believe will improve over time. But one that is still there nonetheless.

[MikeD]

I'm normally with you Mike, but on this we disagree.

There is an issue. APDs didn't used to blow out my speakers in years past. I wasn't deafened at semi's in years past. There is a balance issue currently.

One that I believe will improve over time. But one that is still there nonetheless.

Well, just as in my day with recordings you get what you get. That sounds like an issue with how they are mixed. IMO shows are presented to be balanced for the live audience. Mic placement will never provide the same listening experiences as being there.

[MikeD]

well DCI has the best according to you, yet fans aren't coming as much. hmmmm

Plenty of fans are still coming...esp in this economy it is pretty decent...hhhmmmmm

[chaddyt]

Well, just as in my day with recordings you get what you get. That sounds like an issue with how they are mixed. IMO shows are presented to be balanced for the live audience. Mic placement will never provide the same listening experiences as being there.

And again, that still is an issue.

Cavies and Bluecoats were WAY too much on Friday night last year when I was sitting down low. But they were more tolerable on Saturday, when I was up in section 6,000,000 nursing my nosebleed.

[Hrothgar15]

Mic placement will never provide the same listening experiences as being there.

Just as bad live, depending on where you sit. Phantom Regiment's show at West Chester, five rows from an amp? Not pleasant. Bluecoats at semifinals about 20 rows up on the 50? Downright painful.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Hrothgar15

[chaddyt]

Just as bad live, depending on where you sit. Phantom Regiment's show at West Chester, five rows from an amp? Not pleasant. Bluecoats at semifinals about 20 rows up on the 50? Downright painful.

Wasn't at West Chester, but I have to agree with you on the second part.

[Big Bad Bari]

I would much rather it be the Horniline, and the Drumline, and the Front ensemble (without amplification) be what fills up the stadium with sound. Not a computer, just my opinion. Lets just fix the problem instead of ignoring it. Why patch over your low end with fake low end, when you could have the real life genuine thing right in front of you?

That will never happen... The instructors have the kids handcuffed as far as really getting out there and melting faces. I was watching the old vids the other night and was really kind of taken back when I saw the amount of air and physical effort put into the playing... I mean how many times today do the kids get to hear from the staff... "Ok folks, this time I really want you to MAKE IT FLY?" (Wayne Downey btw he meant VOLUME )

[charlie1223]

It will get better no matter what.

The reason for the recent rule proposal passing was because directors KNEW that the balance was a problem... They complained they didn't have the tools necessary to make the electronics sound as GOOD as possible from the stands. Now, they do. And I can't think of anything better then having the control guy in the stands.

This rule proposal and its unanimous passing (I think it was unanimous) means that designers/directors have higher standards for what they want the electronics to sound like. IF for whatever reason this year the electronics STILL do not meet the standard that directors set for themselves then there is little another rule change can do to improve the balance.

This recent rule change is the last thing corps can do. There isn't anything in terms of "tools to control balance" that CAN be improved after this rule proposal. So, this year will be a very critical year: judges will be expecting better balance because they know directors now have all the tools they asked for, and the directors will also be expecting better balance because they feel that this new tool was the only thing lacking in achieving better balance.

Those that do not achieve better balance will now be looked at as having a performing error and NOT a lack of technology error. Those that achieve better balance will in fact prove that A&E can be effective when given all of its proper tools for manipulation. Thus, finally, corps will be given proper scores for their balance issues when it comes to electronics.

For example, BD set the standard for what is the best brass. All the other corps were based off of that technique and style because to the judges it was Superior. If BD masters electronic balance THIS year, it is now a performance aspiration just like "best brass". The Judge can say "If BD's brass can play like that and get a 10, then I will hold all other corps to that standard with BD being the corps to beat.... SOOO... If BD A&E can sound that balance, and all corps have ALL the tools they asked for, then I will hold all other corps to that standard with BD being the corps to beat..."

Corps that can't handle, live up to, or surpass the level of "electronic balance" implemented by BD (or the best balanced corps of 2011) will either lose points in music ensemble or should drop the synth entirely and hope they can achieve a better balanced sound without a synth.

**Just using BD as an example**

Sorta confusing... sorry... but hopefully you get the point.

Edited February 27, 2011 by charlie1223

[charlie1223]

Just want to add:

Now corps can finally be judged on how well they can manage with the talent level of the designers and audio engineers when it comes to corps balance. They can't point the finger at anything or anyone this season except for themselves. Every single corps has NO excuse to have "severe" balance issues. And if there are issues, points CAN and SHOULD be deducted because the idea of a "perfect balance" with synths and the corps can now be expected because of the rule change.

It should NOW be about who has the better balance and who doesn't regardless of synthesizers or tools. By maxing out complete control of the "balance issue" it levels the playing field across all corps and judges don't have to feel intimidated to deduct points for balance issues in the synth/elecronics.... why? because perfection is hypothetically attainable now with this rule change... only "error" is human error, which is what is being judged in the first place.

Edited February 27, 2011 by charlie1223

[soccerguy315]

This is very simple: If the balance sucks, it sucks.

Any good conductor knows how to balance a full orchestra (a lot more voices than a drum corps). When you're conducting, you're constantly looking at the score, imagining the sound from the score, and checking that sound against the one produced by the musicians.

How many orchestra concerts have you been to where you can see the woodwinds playing, but you can't hear them? There are many possible reasons: 1) Another voice in the orchestra is tool loud. 2) The orchestration sucks. 3) Your own hearing isn't very good.

Fast-forward to a judge's responsibility, looking at a sheet, and listening to a show. He's supposed to be listening for examples of ALWAYS SUPERIOR BALANCE AND BLEND (for box 5; and 20 other possible things, depending on caption). ALL OF WHICH INCLUDE THE SYNTH.

Let's assume a judge DOES penalize a corps for what they feel is an unbalanced musical idea. Said judge goes to critique, and hears this from the corps' music people "But that's what we're going for!"

Now it gets tricky for the judge. Because if they are confident, they'll say something like "then you may as well not use the tubas, since I can't hear them." The Supreme Brass Staff Orators out there will say "We have no problem hearing them at all." (delivered fresh with condescending tone)

And maybe they don't! It's entirely possible that the staff people CAN hear something a judge CANNOT hear. The only way to know for sure, would be for the judge and the staff to listen to a rep with and without the tubas, all other things remaining the same. And what if they STILL disagree??

Seriously, now, can you imagine how much confidence a judge would need in order to stick up for what they're ACTUALLY hearing? That would take supreme self-confidence outside the realm of reality. And even if a judge DID have that qualification, then the same judge would have to learn to put up with the self-absorbed nature of the staffs of drum corps.

It's a very, very VERY difficult job, being a judge. This is why you don't hear about corps being penalized for synths. The synth (and A&E) adds an entirely new dimension to BnB that is still being worked out between judges and staffs.

so what you're saying is that the judges don't give numbers based on what they hear?