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Cavaliers hornline


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Maybe visually, but certainly not musically. Phantom's overall musical package was LEAGUES better than anyone in DCI in 2008. Their brass was top notch (arguably could have been first), their percussion was arguably one of the best lines in DCI history (ridiculously hard book, super-duper clean) and their ensemble sound was terrific. Blue Devils were their equal in brass. No one else in DCI was even close to Phantom's quality in the other music captions. How they didn't get 20.0 in musical effect I'll never understand.

Visually? Yep, Phantom was weak. You can't compare scores from year to year, but spreads I think are more comparable. Phantom's visual was 0.65 behind the high visual score in 2008; going back to 1985 in recaps I don't see another championship corps that was more than 0.2 away from high visual. Then again, Phantom was 0.625 ahead of the 2nd place high music score, the biggest spread since 1997 Blue Devils (0.7 ahead of SCV in Mus Ens, Brass, & Perc).

I loved BOTH of the Top 2 shows in 2008. Phantom was musically strong, Blue Devils were visually strong. Being a musical guy, I liked Phantom better. MUSICALLY, I think Phantom was indeed one of the best shows in DCI history.

If thats true, then why have they never won a brass trophy?

There were soooo many intonation issues in their show it was laughable.

Plus they had tons of stick outs. Being a "musical" guy, you must already know this right?

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If thats true, then why have they never won a brass trophy?

PR won brass in 89 and 96...and maybe 78?

I watched Phantom during a stand still warm up in 2008 and they sounded MARVELOUS. I think some of the errors or shortcomings you/we hear on the field show recordings are directly related to their visual issues. If you can't march well, it's not likely you'll be able to play your best.

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Hey if you don't mind, can you please provide me with a specific time in the finals recording when they sounded like 6th graders? I can't find it.

(This actually isn't a sarcastic post. I'm far from a music major.)

That specific instance starts at 11:38 on my recording. I'd say there's about a 30 cent wide "concert F" (I even hesitate to call it that) happening right there.

(But it's so "emotional!" Ugh, give me a break.)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I didn't quite say they "sounded like 6th graders" at that spot. Just that they were exhibiting musical characteristics that should NOT have been rewarded the way they were.

Edited by Room_101
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If thats true, then why have they never won a brass trophy?

They've won three brass trophies and have been 2nd or 3rd ELEVEN other times:

1st - 1996, 1989, 1978

2nd - 2008, 2006, 2005, 1979, 1977

3rd - 2007, 2004, 1997, 1991, 1987, 1976

There were soooo many intonation issues in their show it was laughable.

Plus they had tons of stick outs. Being a "musical" guy, you must already know this right?

I know that you're either exaggerating or don't know what you're talking about. Were they flawless? Nope. Was it a clambake? Also nope. It was a tough book, played very well. Jeff Harper, Todd Zimbelman, Paul McGarr and I are all in agreement on that.

You also seem to be under the impression that we're still in a tick system, where every mistake you hear (or think you hear) should be -0.1

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That specific instance starts at 11:38 on my recording. I'd say there's about a 30 cent wide "concert F" (I even hesitate to call it that) happening right there.

(But it's so "emotional!" Ugh, give me a break.)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I didn't quite say they "sounded like 6th graders" at that spot. Just that they were exhibiting musical characteristics that should NOT have been rewarded the way they were.

Fair enough. Honestly, I've never noticed it. But what about the rest of the show? Does that one note ruin it for you? What about the mellos? They blow my mind. Also, listen to BD's recording at 11:22. You hear a lovely lead euph (or did the leads march baris that year?) playing a high F wayyyy too loud. Sticking way out of the sound and breathing on the bar lines.

This is in no way to bash either of these hornlines - '08 is by far my favorite shows of the top 2 as a pair. I'm just saying that I don't think it's crazy to say that phantom had just as much reason to win brass as BD did. I know phantom has a reputation for blowing their faces off...but I like that.

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They've won three brass trophies and have been 2nd or 3rd ELEVEN other times:

1st - 1996, 1989, 1978

2nd - 2008, 2006, 2005, 1979, 1977

3rd - 2007, 2004, 1997, 1991, 1987, 1976

I know that you're either exaggerating or don't know what you're talking about. Were they flawless? Nope. Was it a clambake? Also nope. It was a tough book, played very well. Jeff Harper, Todd Zimbelman, Paul McGarr and I are all in agreement on that.

You also seem to be under the impression that we're still in a tick system, where every mistake you hear (or think you hear) should be -0.1

any placement other than 1st is irrelevant

When i said no brass trophy, i was speaking in terms of this decade. Not 93487987 years ago

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No offense, but if you didn't love their brass sound in 2002 you're completely and utterly tone deaf.

For the longest time brass was the Cavaliers' weak spot. It pretty much cost them the title in both 90 and 91, but brass managed to not "lose" the title in 92 and 95 (no doubt visual and percussion still powered the corps to the Championship in both years). Starting in 1999, though, Cavies brass started to come around, and by 2002 they were a marvel of great tone and amazing intonation. 02-06 Cavies brass lines were all delicious, but then they regressed. The 07-09 weren't quite as strong, and I think the staff knew it because they wrote a set of shows (07-08) that really avoided featuring the brass for extended sections (I think I counted in one of those two--2007 or 2008, can't remember--that the Cavaliers brass was playing for about 6 minutes and NOT playing for about 5.5 minutes of an 11.5 minute show).

2010 was much, much better compared to the previous three years. Definitely a step in the right direction that I hope they continue on in 2011.

I think 2004, when they did 007, was clearly their best hornline.

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dont knock their staff that year. they were good. Their approach just wasnt what drum corps fans/judges wanted but they were good.

If the bolded is true, then they deserved to be knocked.

Who were they trying to appeal to if it wasn't drum corps fans in the audience or the judges on the field?

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I just don't get how anyone can say that. There were so many poor musical moments throughout Spartacus. They were nothing compared to the EGREGIOUS visual disasters, but when I first heard the end of their show and I realized that these college-aged musicians couldn't match unisons and octaves on a concert F, I thought they should have been fourth (yes, fourth...BD, Cavs/Crown, Phantom).

I learned how to do that in the sixth grade!

(Not to mention they hold that stupid note for like 30 seconds and they NEVER fix it...and I won't even get into the mistakes that happen when the other chord members enter!)

It was MUCH better than how absolutely AWFUL BD sounded on their last note in 08. I heard that lead Euph in the stands.. and it was even worse on the recording. Not to mention bad sounds and some shoddy intonation. Personally, the last note of phantoms show was TONS more in tune, and I didn't here any intonation. I'm sorry but you HAD to have confused the two hornlines. When the BD leads cap it at the end it sounds AWFUL... which is a shame, because everything before the last 30 seconds of the show sounded pretty awesome.

And throughout Spartacus... there were many AMAZING musical moments. And that show came together VERY WELL visually. Not at the level that BD achieved, but good enough to win the championship It won a championship on finals night for a reason.

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