Platinum switching to G bugles soon.

[Howdy]

Drum corps help horn companys sell multi key marching band instruments to hs and college marching bands.

I think this is the real reason that corps are not playing g bugles anymore.

[RobG]

Hate to be overly practical, but what about cost and quality?

Aren't good-quality G horns harder to find, not to mention repair, than Bb/F horns?

Aren't they more expensive to buy and repair?

I knew someone in the repair business who remembers trying to find parts for G horns and having trouble.

Besides, at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, didn't hornlines sound better after making the switch to Bb/F?

[rzeilinger1]

why is it that some of the smaller corps that fold just cant merge and become a larger more competitive corps? Not to say being larger means they wont fold, but there seems to be many a small corps that are doing the same thing to keep their head above water and part of their ability to do so is to attract kids to march with them. just saying.

After aiding in the start up and management of Impulse Drum & Bugle corps, I can tell you the growth of small corps in Southern California is a direct result in the realization (and opportunities created by the any key ruling)that a million dollars in the bank and a million dollar+ annual cash cow are not necessary to "start" a small community drum & "Brass Instrument" corps.

So anyone.....

a)with an ego and doesn't look before they leap.

b)with time on their hands and a wet dream to fulfill and money to burn.

c)who is a control freak and needs a small kingdom to rule and needs a non-profit group as a front to raise money so they can pay themselves $60K or more to run it, but not adequately fund the operation.

d)who is a disgruntled drum corps vet and/or volunteer with closure issues or something to prove.

Or any combination of any of the above.

Can start a corps now and put it on the field or street. Because of the reason I stated, mergers are not possible (for the most part) BECAUSE of the reasons I stated.

Much like going into a marriage for the wrong reason and ignoring the signs that it may or will fail when the real reason for the marriage comes to light.....many small corps that are started for the wrong reasons I stated (and maybe more) Fold once the poor foundation it was built on, eventually collapses on them.

Now if a group of people start a Drum Corps because they.....

a)Believe there is a need (because they did the market research)....

b)Have the Love the activity in them, not that they Love Themselves in the Activity ...

c)Truly believe it is a worthwhile community outreach musical youth activity that will enrich the lives of kids...

d)Has a solid business plan, and will work the plan for the sake of the corps, not run away when they can't play with the shiny thing...

e)Has good honest volunteers with "time" and "connections" to help start it, fund it (by having a solid plan to raise money and knows how much it will need) and run it....

f)Can schedule community performances, and competitive performances without the belief that serving DCI is the only reason to exist....

g)Knows how to build relationships with the local school band and music education programs...

h)Won't ever give up when it gets challenging....

i)Will build a culture of fairness and professional and educational appropriateness....

They just might have a chance of survival.

Generally the size and work ethic of the infrastructure will determine the size of the performance unit.

Case in point: Southern California. Impulse Youth Arts Org (founded 1998)DBA: Impulse Drum & Bugle Corps DBA: Rhythm Regiment is in it's 12th year of existence, serving the community, encouraging the members to become music educators and solid professionals. Believes in their place as a community outreach program, not just as a competing DCI corps. Open Class size corps, Open Class size operations, in state tour only. They do what they can afford, so kids will benefit for a long time to come. IYAO also were the founding organization for So Cal Dream (All-Age) D&B Corps, Pulse Percussion WGI Champs.

Pacific Crest: PC Youth Arts Org. (founded 1992-93)In it's 18th year? Closely tied to it's community, strong infrastructure, deep commitment to music and pageantry education and enrichment....World class, limited national touring corps. They also do what they can afford, so they can continue to be available for many generations to come.

come and gone since 2000 (the last ten years)

Earthquake - San Diego, CA

West Coast Sound - San Diego, CA

San Diego Alliance - San Diego (duh)

Esperanza - San Diego, CA

Fever - Modesto, CA

Yamato - Riverside, CA

Patriots Praise - Phelan, CA

Kingsmen Sr corps - Anaheim, CA

Kingsmen Jr Corps - nothing yet

Incognito - Garden Grove / Brea CA

New arrivals

the New VK Jr D&B Corps(Founded around 2007 and not to be confused or associated with the original Velvet Knights (1963-1997))

City Sound around 2010 (Jr Drum & Bugle Corps) their Drum line has been around for 12yrs?

Freelancers Alumni and friends.

Kingsmen Alumni Corps and friends.

Blue Phoenix (All-Age) Corps (parades and standstills)

Velvet Knights Alumni Corps and friends.(VK alumni from the 1963-1997 organization)not the new VK.

All this activity in the last 10 years. None of the folded or inactive corps were willing to "merge" to create a new identity. All of them were loyal to their brand.

Also, no one wanted to take on anyone else's debts by merging, or combine or adopt staff or organizational personnel outside of membership.

And that's the way it has been working in California. No one "wants" to merge.

Each group has people that create it, claim it, and crash it, all by themselves.

Kudos to Pacific Crest and Impulse for their commitment to Longevity.

We'll see what the next 5 to 10 years produces.

Serve the members, serve the community, don't serve the ego.

[Mello Dude]

Hate to be overly practical, but what about cost and quality?

Aren't good-quality G horns harder to find, not to mention repair, than Bb/F horns?

Aren't they more expensive to buy and repair?

I knew someone in the repair business who remembers trying to find parts for G horns and having trouble.

Besides, at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, didn't hornlines sound better after making the switch to Bb/F?

Actually you hit on a great point. In FACT there are MUCH larger differences in quality now in the brass being played now than ever before. Hornlines sound "different" now, not better IMHO. Quite honestly, I have played on good horns and bad horns from about every company and it generally comes around to the players. I've actually sat down with a DB meter to test Bb vs G and there is no doubt the G horns produces a louder more distinctive sound. That "distinctive" overtone series is what used to make drum corps hornlines "unique". If we are TRULY multi key I would love to see some C trumpets out there sometime as well and possibly D or Eb.

[84BDsop]

come and gone since 2000 (the last ten years)

Earthquake - San Diego, CA

West Coast Sound - San Diego, CA

San Diego Alliance - San Diego (duh)

Esperanza - San Diego, CA

Fever - Modesto, CA

Yamato - Riverside, CA

Patriots Praise - Phelan, CA

Kingsmen Sr corps - Anaheim, CA

Kingsmen Jr Corps - nothing yet

Incognito - Garden Grove / Brea CA

I had no idea there was a corps out of Phelan....PHELAN?????

Can you go back another 5 years, just so I can get Nightfire a mention?? (founded 94, fielded 96, folded 97). You also didn't mention (probably didn't know about) Pacific Sound -- which became the Earthquake.

[rzeilinger1]

I had no idea there was a corps out of Phelan....PHELAN?????

Can you go back another 5 years, just so I can get Nightfire a mention?? (founded 94, fielded 96, folded 97). You also didn't mention (probably didn't know about) Pacific Sound -- which became the Earthquake.

Sam,

You just mentioned some of the most memorable corps to exist, a shame I forgot them (chuckle)

Not to make fun, but you make my point.

Drum Corps have come an gone like high school garage bands.

The ones with a greater purpose prevail, the ones that come into existence because of a fleeting fancy are just that....fleeting.

And none of them would want to merge unless there was a hidden agenda...like debt absorption or trojan horse hostile takeovers.

After all, it is Southern California, the land of opportunists and consumerism.

Impulse and I'm sure PC has had to place some watchful gate keepers at their doors.

Seems like Local Drum Corps are a great way to gain personal endorsements, cap feathering to promote oneself...if they are clever enough to pull the wool over some well intentioned lambs eyes.

You and I had discussed the "WHY" and "HOW" of starting a drum corps.....in hindsight with your recent personal activity, did anything I offered you come to fruition?

Here's a good metaphor. As I was traveling back from Nor Cal, I saw some beautiful Hilltops that would make fantastic spots for huge homes.

The vision and dream come first, but reality often times doesn't follow. How to you get utilities and sewage to the top of a hill made of rock?

Some have...I bet it cost a pretty penny. I hope anyone considering starting a corps, thinks it through. It's not a toy, its a youth activity and people lives.

Treat it with respect.

[CrunchyTenor]

Hate to be overly practical, but what about cost and quality?

Aren't good-quality G horns harder to find, not to mention repair, than Bb/F horns?

Aren't they more expensive to buy and repair?

I knew someone in the repair business who remembers trying to find parts for G horns and having trouble.

Besides, at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, didn't hornlines sound better after making the switch to Bb/F?

Go back a few pages for a list of the cost of Kanstul G Bugles vs Kanstul Marching Brass. They use the same materials, off the same production line, with the same craftsmen. Also, when was your friend having trouble finding parts? The two remaining maufacturers (Dynasty and Kanstul) use the same valves, lead pipes, etc., as in their Bb/F marching brass. The only main difference is the length of the horn overall.

Also, as mentioned before, G bugles have always been a special order item. But I guarantee if you send Dynasty or Kanstul a check, they'll make them for you.

Garry in Vegas

[84BDsop]

You and I had discussed the "WHY" and "HOW" of starting a drum corps.....in hindsight with your recent personal activity, did anything I offered you come to fruition?

Yeah...I think I saw a few references to those email in that post!

I'm trying to get in with one of the high schools through a friend of mine who has his teaching cred and has some band experience...unfortunately, no one seems to be hiring right now...so we're on a wait and see.

[MiniSopGuy]

I wish Platinum well and hope they make it to the DCi field in the next couple seasons and I hope they do it with G horns.

A couple arguments that always come up in the Bb/F vs G lines that I just don't buy into.....

"The tuning of a G horn is horrible"... With the quality of the horns currently available from Kanstul, this is not an issue at all. I can not say the same about Dynasty horns because I have had nothing but problems with those. As a personal test, I sat down in front of a Peterson strobe tuner for a few hours with my Kanstul G Soprano, Bach 37 trumpet, Benge CG trumpet, Olds Super Recording trumpet, Kanstul COL103 trumpet, and Schilke B1 trumpet. I found that each of the horns had their own very minor differences in tuning, but that all of them had the same common tendencies that you normally find with any trumpet. The usual tuning problems, that all trumpet players know, were the same with every horn including the Kanstul Soprano. Putting a horn up and playing it warm or cold, there were no major tuning differences with any horn and I was able to stop all 5 marks on the strobe with every horn.

"A corps can more easily sell their old horns to buy new"... WHY? Why is it necessary to replace horns every year or two? Why not use the horns as long as they are playable and presentable? If you budget properly and plan ahead, you have prepared to invest in new horns when it is necessary rather than the current model of selling off horns to buy new every couple years. I am not saying keep the horns until the silver is completely worn off and they have been dented and repaired so many times that the finish is completely messed up, but as long as they are in a condition that they are a quality performance tool. Also, I personally would not buy a used horn from a corps when I can buy a new one from the company for a little more and get a full warranty.

"Colleges and high schools look at what drum corps are using when they are looking to buy new horns"... I can say that every time I have been involved int he purchase of new horns for the high schools I have worked at, even being a drum corps nut, I have never considered who is playing on what make of horns. I also know other directors that are the same way. There are so many other factors that come into play that are more heavily weighted than this myth.

Not saying that old corps were bad and didn't care about musicality, but with the extra emphasis now placed on musucality, I would love to hear a "modern" top 3 corps playing on a full set of G horns. I think people would be amazed at the sound produced and the quality of that sound.

---Bob---

Edited July 13, 2011 by MiniSopGuy

[luvah]

I have to agree with this. I would also say that they simply don't play over a certain level and that any sort of an "edgy" sound is simply not tolerated any more.

I think its impossible to get that edgy sound on a b flat trumpet as compared to a G sop. The horn in G is pitched a minor third higher than the B flat variety. The tubing is about 10% shorter. Its a very different instrument. For a comparison, imagine there was no such thing as the top base drum, and the second base drum was as high as you could get. Base drums are pitched a minor 3rd apart. That's the difference between the natural range of the G soprano and the B flat trumpet. Many people have commented that B flat horns don't seem as loud. It could be that you just can't hit the old piercing notes that were possible on the G bugle.