chaddyt Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 No one? Jammed? Everyone? Such finality, such definitive totality. It's a conspiracy I tell ya, pure trickery! We'll get those wascals this year! And BTW...there was no concept to get last year....just pure musical and visual immersion, if you let it happen. You were just trying too hard! Really? Then why didn't they just title their show "Pure Musical and Visual Immersion (... if you let it)"? Honestly... you don't call your show "Through A Glass, Darkly", put 20 some odd moveable mirrors on the field, play some dark, disjointed music, throw in some breaking-glass sound effects and pretend to NOT have any concept whatsoever. That would be a slam on the designers, who (for better or worse, depending on your tastes) probably spent a ton of time and put a lot of thought into designing the program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Realistic scores ( flame shields raised ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Realistic scores?? I do think there is a LITTLE bit of bias in a SMALL HANDFULL of judges, for CERTAIN corps. An example, look at the recaps of last year's finals - I think it's SCV - one judge game them like 9.8 in GE and the other gave them 9.1 Or was that brass? But remember, in QF, SF and Finals, there are different judges for each night - so how do the scores move so little between the judges? It's because they have a very good system going for judging shows. There is objective criteria they look for. It's not all arbitrary. I don't believe there is slotting going on, nor do I think the scores are fixed, etcetera. I just don't see the evidence for that. And besides - what kind of real motive does DCI or judges have for doing that kind of stuff? And don't tell me certain judges favor certain corps and thus scored them much higher, I think there is a little bit of bias, but for 95% of it, it is legit. If a horn angle is off, .05 gone. If someone is out of step, .1 gone. Hear a blatantly obvious wrong note? .1 gone. Drop a flag or rifle or sabre? .1 gone. Objective things like that. But even for GE, there is at least SOME objective criteria. If scores aren't realistic now, they will never be. I don't think it's possible to have any better system than we have now. But the main thing is to realize that scores are not important. /flame 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loopin' froot loops Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) The problem we've encountered now with judging is that it's no longer on the tick system. If one person is out of step at any one point in the show, that doesn't automatically mean you can only get a 9.9 in feet. Judging now is based on what you're attempting to do, at what speeds, and how is everyone else around you handling it. Case in point, BD 2010. In the beginning section of their closer, there is a close-up of the euphs in the middle of a 140-odd count continuous drill move. The camera catches a section of the line phasing, almost on the borderline of being out of step. However, due to the difficulty of the ever-changing shape and pathway they're tracing on the field, the judge awards them the credit of maintaining the form and overlooks the phasing... As much as it might suck to some of us on here, we all just need to realise the tick system is gone and will never come back. The activity has changed alot since then and isn't looking to turn back now. As the tempos get higher and the drill gets bigger and crazier, human error is bound to happen. Personally, I'd like to go to a show this season and not hear someone gripe about the judges not using the tick system. It's not on the judging sheets anymore, so they're not going to use it. Just sit back, support the concession stands by getting a hot dog, and enjoy the show! Edited June 4, 2011 by loopin' froot loops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 But the main thing is to realize that scores are not important. The scores, to me, are vitally important. Without the scores there is little reason for a 'competition'. If there is no competition, there is little reason to see more than one show. If there is little reason to go to a show, just catch it on FN. If you're just going to watch FN, the corps can save tons of cash by simply videoing themselves and posting it. Have viewers vote for their favorites - and then we're back to keeping score... Yes, that is a very basic, simple thought scenario, but does provide an example of how/why scores are important. Without it being a 'competition', without keeping scores, without the potential for an upset - it becomes just another TV show. While improvements have certainly been made in the judging process, it is far from flawless. Without a written set of rules/guidelines available to the fan, it leaves far too much room for suspicion of bias, favoritism, cronyism, corruption, etc. I'm not saying any of the preceding exists - but I definitively cannot say it doesn't. Every error caught by a judge should be a penalty on the score, because the scores really do matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Oh - I'm not saying they aren't important at all - and I totally agree that without scoring and judging and the nature of competition forcing a better product, then there would be no drum corps - what I meant to say is that we as fans should put scores in the back seat over things like entertainment, show theme, music choices, etc. And also, if you think the judging system is far from perfect, then you really shouldn't be putting much emphasis on scores, since they aren't realistic due to the very reason you mentioned that they are far from perfect. Far from perfect = much less accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 In all fairness many people skip that stuff now a days just like the old retreats there would always be a handful of people on the 50 hootin and hollerin and the rest are running for the parking lot to get out. I've sat thru many victory runs at finals. Easily the smallest I've ever seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The problem we've encountered now with judging is that it's no longer on the tick system. If one person is out of step at any one point in the show, that doesn't automatically mean you can only get a 9.9 in feet. Judging now is based on what you're attempting to do, at what speeds, and how is everyone else around you handling it. Case in point, BD 2010. In the beginning section of their closer, there is a close-up of the euphs in the middle of a 140-odd count continuous drill move. The camera catches a section of the line phasing, almost on the borderline of being out of step. However, due to the difficulty of the ever-changing shape and pathway they're tracing on the field, the judge awards them the credit of maintaining the form and overlooks the phasing... As much as it might suck to some of us on here, we all just need to realise the tick system is gone and will never come back. The activity has changed alot since then and isn't looking to turn back now. As the tempos get higher and the drill gets bigger and crazier, human error is bound to happen. Personally, I'd like to go to a show this season and not hear someone gripe about the judges not using the tick system. It's not on the judging sheets anymore, so they're not going to use it. Just sit back, support the concession stands by getting a hot dog, and enjoy the show! the problem in the modern system is book gets too much credit, and drives the performer number more than it should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I've sat thru many victory runs at finals. Easily the smallest I've ever seen That could be for sure.. I try to run out I believe most dont care...JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonW Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Aye, that too is true. I'm certainly not advocating a return to the tic system - the only real virtue I see was the results of a performance was mostly in the hands of the corps. If you booched your show, the score was gonna blow. With modern Drum Corps scoring, most of the power is with those interpreting what is displayed. That leaves me, a fan and viewer, large chunks of gray to wander through, trying to understand. I would prefer the scores to accurately reflect what actually transpired on the field rather than in the minds of those judging what was 'attempted' on the field. Give the majority of the power back to the performers. If the show was loaded with errors, regardless of how difficult the manuever, the score should be affected. Whistful wishing on my part, hehe! I am a fan though, and greatly enjoyed last season - and I will undoubtedly enjoy this season - just wish there was a real genuine way to kick the competition aspects up several notches. Unpredictability would make it irresistable! Got those thoughts out of my head... now I can go to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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