LegendOfJ Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 "Size doesn't matter! We'll be fair! Honest!" ~ DCI judges Ok. Just tell me who won gold in Open Class (or div 2/3) for the last x years and the truth should become depressingly obvious... I would love to take 40 kids from BDB, put them in Racine Scouts uniforms, and have them play a show without telling the judging panel. I bet it would be HILARIOUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistar Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) "Size doesn't matter! We'll be fair! Honest!" ~ DCI judges Ok. Just tell me who won gold in Open Class (or div 2/3) for the last x years and the truth should become depressingly obvious... Well, correct if I am wrong (and I may be), but I think only 2 of the past 4 champions were actually the largest Corps in Open Class: '07 Spartans were not the largest, '08 SCVC were also not the largest. I would love to take 40 kids from BDB, put them in Racine Scouts uniforms, and have them play a show without telling the judging panel. I bet it would be HILARIOUS. Well, Possibly...but if you took the top 60 musicians from bdb AND their staff, I'm sure they would be very competitive and possibly have a shot at the championship. And if you agree with that, then WHY do you think they would be so competitive against the larger corps? If you know the answer to that question, then you know why size does not determine the eventual champion. Cali. Edited June 30, 2011 by Calistar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, correct if I am wrong (and I may be), but I think only 2 of the past 4 champions were actually the largest Corps in Open Class: '07 Spartans were not the largest, '08 SCVC were also not the largest. Well, Possibly...but if you took the top 60 musicians from bdb AND their staff, I'm sure they would be very competitive and possibly have a shot at the championship. And if you agree with that, then WHY do you think they would be so competitive against the larger corps? If you know the answer to that question, then you know why size does not determine the eventual champion. Cali. exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, if you have personal insight into the age, then you would know more than I do about it. I was just going off of my perception, which I admit could be wrong. No worries, mate. I think that the staff does not get enough credit. I would really like to compare 2 more things, 1) practice hours 2) Staff members.. (as in number and quality) I could not state for any other corp, but BDB corp definitely puts in the time with a first rate staff. I venture to say that SCVC does as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBari Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) I'm slightly amused at some of the posts. Only in Open Class can someone argue about how being in a larger corps is a problem. "You have to work harder to clean a larger corps." Really? I mean REALLY? I'm quite sure every corps since the very first drum corps hit the field knows full well how much work goes into cleaning a large corps. But then again, only in Open Class would a small corps have a chance of beating a larger corps. This says more about the scoring system in Open Class than it does the corps themselves. Remember when Magic only won D2 by 3 points over Capital Regiment, but then went into D1 competition and put a 10 point gap between them in D1 semis. Do any of you honestly think Pioneer has a hope in hell of beating the Blue Devils? Yeah, a few small corps have made WC semifinals, but that's just it... a few. But all in all, the big boys win out, because how many of those small corps made Top 12 or was in position to win it all? Edited June 30, 2011 by EKBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'm slightly amused at some of the posts. Only in Open Class can someone argue about how being in a larger corps is a problem. "You have to work harder to clean a larger corps." Really? I mean REALLY? I'm quite sure every corps since the very first drum corps hit the field knows full well how much work goes into cleaning a large corps. But then again, only in Open Class would a small corps have a chance of beating a larger corps. This says more about the scoring system in Open Class than it does the corps themselves. Remember when Magic only won D2 by 3 points over Capital Regiment, but then went into D1 competition and put a 10 point gap between them in D1 semis. Do any of you honestly think Pioneer has a hope in hell of beating the Blue Devils? Yeah, a few small corps have made WC semifinals, but that's just it... a few. But all in all, the big boys win out, because how many of those small corps made Top 12 or was in position to win it all? stay amused... Kind of mis-stated my comment, but I will play along. Really, cleaning a larger corp is more difficult, but I did not call that a problem. When I taught, if I could remove 3-4 people, my scores would have increased. Really. We can talk somewhat about scale. If you march 10 people, I doubt that you even belong in DCI. But, the difference between 106 and 130 is not that great. In fact, some posters have already guessed a 106 corp at 130. But, comparing a corp of 130 with a corp of 30 is ridiculous. I doubt that was the point of this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 One more comment, if size is the critical factor, music city should win... From their site, "This summer the corps will field 150 members including 80 horns, 34 guard, 33 percussionists and 3 drum majors" So, I guess that BDB and SCVC don't have a chance, if you are right. And since the larger corp has to be easier to clean, .... Anyway, I don't subscribe to that train of thought. and best of luck to Music City. My apologies to using them (they are the largest corp I know) to make a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBari Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 stay amused... Kind of mis-stated my comment, but I will play along. Really, cleaning a larger corp is more difficult, but I did not call that a problem. When I taught, if I could remove 3-4 people, my scores would have increased. Really. We can talk somewhat about scale. If you march 10 people, I doubt that you even belong in DCI. But, the difference between 106 and 130 is not that great. In fact, some posters have already guessed a 106 corp at 130. But, comparing a corp of 130 with a corp of 30 is ridiculous. I doubt that was the point of this post. Is size going to be an issue? That's the title of the thread. I go off that. Or... We can just stop beating around the bush and say what some are thinking? Is BDB winning because they're big? Not because they have a great staff, great recruiting, and the one thing people tend to overlook is regardless of their size, their shows are written for the talent level of the members. Failure to do this has tripped up more than a few corps even back in the 80s when I marched. Corps would manage to field a 75-80 member corps and suddenly the staff would think they were the next Boston Crusaders (ask an old head about this reference). It's one thing to have difficulty in your shows, but it is another thing entirely to put so much difficulty in the show that the entire summer is spent cleaning the same thing over and over, eventually, the members start to tune out and next summer your corps isn't so large anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, correct if I am wrong (and I may be), but I think only 2 of the past 4 champions were actually the largest Corps in Open Class: '07 Spartans were not the largest, '08 SCVC were also not the largest. Actually, I think '02 Magic and '06 Academy are the only others in the past 20 years where the largest corps won. Without the BDB victories, we could not even be having this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumdad Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, correct if I am wrong (and I may be), but I think only 2 of the past 4 champions were actually the largest Corps in Open Class: '07 Spartans were not the largest, '08 SCVC were also not the largest. I have seen a few posts, on this thread, that make the point that some OC champions were not the largest corps in their winning year. Absolutely true! But, I don't think the question that started this thread was ever meant to imply that the "largest" corps always wins. It was intended to spur discussion about whether size matters. Do the "larger" (not necessarily the largest) corps have an advantage over the "smaller" corps? The answer is yes. Does that mean smaller corps can't take part in the hunt? The answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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