JimF-LowBari Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Hmmmm.... And yet you hang out in DCI forums complaining about modern trends going on at DCI shows?! Where am I complaining? I state that I don't go and why so the facts are out in the open. If I didn't it would be like I am hiding the fact that I don't go which ain't right IMO. Another fact: I do care about the entire activity (including DCI) and I do care about the current members. But, I don't care enough about the DCI shows themselves to spend the money and time to go. Best way I know of to keep up with what's going on is DCP. Edit: I'm a firm believer that ALL of the activities pieces (Jr, All Age, Alumni, Mini, whatever) need to be healthy for the activity to survive. And my biggest concern is survival NOT that ####y little detail of if I like a show or not. PS - there are ways to support DCI members other than going to shows.... Edited July 1, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tariq.shah Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Approaching a performance consistently regardless of the venue is vastly different than the REALITY of the matter. No one disputes that EVERY run-through needs to be approached as a performance. No one. That is also a fact. But that's a DIFFERENT fact. Performing consistently IS the reality of the matter. Every rep, every run-through, every show, is of the utmost importance. Your assertions are still ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja273 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Do you guys think the electronics are bringing new people to drum corps? Do you think if A&E rules were reverted to 2003, that that would turn a lot of fans off of drum corps? It seems to me the bigger risk is sticking with A&E. It's more gear to buy and maintain, another staff member (presumably, at least for most corps), and it obviously drives a lot of long-time fans nuts. So it seems to me that it needs to be really clearly a benefit to keep the rules in place. Keep in mind that most of today's youth (future fans in the stands) have grown up with this in marching band and now in drum corps. I doubt A&E will drive any of them away. So, I guess it comes down to who will be spending the most $$ with DCI in the coming years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I can see where you're coming from, and I'm certainly not trying to screw anyone. However, your analogy is a little flawed in a couple of ways. First off, not all management would welcome some of the kinds of comments that are spit out around here regarding their business. If you were running a restaurant, for example, and you had a customer that routinely came to your restaurant, and complained loudly about the food, making it difficult for other guests to enjoy their food, you would rather that customer just not show up, rather than listen to his comments. The customer isn't always right. Second, music is an art based industry, not a service industry. Audience members go to see a particular type of music because they like the way it sounds. Its not like going to a mechanic, where either he fixed your radiator or he didn't. Lots of people will have lots of different tastes. That said, I know full well that there are people out there that won't like the music I play. For example, a lot of people don't like what jazz has evolved into. They think that the jazz should be a reserved rhythm section that simply lays down a groove and stays out of the soloists way, ala Count Basie. Other people really appreciate the collective concept that came out of Miles Davis' quintet from the 60s, where everyone in the group started to have an equal voice. Neither group is wrong, as its a matter of personal preference, however a person who doesn't like the modern jazz concept, shouldn't go see a modern jazz show because they won't enjoy it. I'm not a huge fan of Opera, so I don't go to the Opera. That doesn't mean I don't think anyone should go to the Opera, and it certainly doesn't mean I think that Opera musicians should do anything differently. I just recognize that that's not a style of music that I particularly enjoy, so I don't go. Drum corps is not that different. Its a far cry from what it was in the 70's. That's not a good or a bad thing, its just different. Some people will like it. Some people won't. But nobody is going to suddenly force it to change back to what it was by complaining about it, so why waste their time and money going to a show that you know you won't enjoy? I'm not messing with DCI's fan base. Simply suggesting that if you really can't stand what you're hearing and seeing, then there's no point you going to a show. I'm not arguing what you posted but you missed my point. To use your example it would be like leaving that resturant with a friend and saying you didn't like the meal. Then your friend starts squawking "Well quit going there since you can't appreciate what they did". #1 the "friend" makes it sound like it's your fault you didn't like your meal. #2 the friend is speaking for the resturant by telling you what to do #3 restuarant loses business and doesn't have a clue why. Notice I never said be nasty in your comments which seems to be implied in your response. Have relatives who ran businesses for decades (resturant, motel and garage/car dealership actually) and any owner who doesn't listen to both good and bad comments usually goes under. And ####ed if they would put up with someone (the friend) speaking for them. Also one big point that has been misunderstood is this: In my example the owner is NEVER informed about customer dis-satisfaction. And let's not forget folks, complaining about DCI on the Planet is not complaining to DCI. Edited July 1, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 No argument there! But IMO, it loses its impact when coupled with forecasts of doom. We live with that crap everyday in our national political debate ....and in the A&E and G7 proposals.... and it's manipulative and mostly BS designed to solicit our agreement. Still think so when the examples I cited are included? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Keep in mind that most of today's youth (future fans in the stands) have grown up with this in marching band and now in drum corps. I doubt A&E will drive any of them away. So, I guess it comes down to who will be spending the most $$ with DCI in the coming years. That's all it ever comes down to. There are a lofty few on here who really think their point of view is so special and wonderful that they can speak for "the crowd" more than those who disagree with them. And they truly believe they are irreplacable. I figure I'm maybe 2-3 years away from not watching this stuff anymore, and I have no idea if there are people out there who will replace me and those who leave at the same time as me. Neither does anybody else, no matter how special and wonderful some think their opinions are. Edited July 1, 2011 by Lance 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Keep in mind that most of today's youth (future fans in the stands) have grown up with this in marching band and now in drum corps. I doubt A&E will drive any of them away. So, I guess it comes down to who will be spending the most $$ with DCI in the coming years. I'm not asking if newer fans will think A&E is worthy of controversy. I'm asking, would a lack of A&E in drum corps mean they would be less interested in participating and/or going to shows etc? I grew up with woodwinds in my band program, but the lack of them in drum corps is not a turnoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm not arguing what you posted but you missed my point. To use your example it would be like leaving that resturant with a friend and saying you didn't like the meal. Then your friend starts squawking "Well quit going there since you can't appreciate what they did". #1 the "friend" makes it sound like it's your fault you didn't like your meal. #2 the friend is speaking for the resturant by telling you what to do #3 restuarant loses business and doesn't have a clue why. Notice I never said be nasty in your comments which seems to be implied in your response. Have relatives who ran businesses for decades (resturant, motel and garage/car dealership actually) and any owner who doesn't listen to both good and bad comments usually goes under. And ####ed if they would put up with someone (the friend) speaking for them. Also one big point that has been misunderstood is this: In my example the owner is NEVER informed about customer dis-satisfaction. And let's not forget folks, complaining about DCI on the Planet is not complaining to DCI. The difference here is, I'm not squawking anything about DCI. I simply made a suggestion. Last time I checked, it wasn't against the law to make suggestion. If I have a friend that continually goes to a restaurant, and every time, he complains about the food, or the service or whatever, then yes, I would suggest to him that he stop going there. And I certainly wouldn't want to listen to him complain about it when there is a clear alternative to him being upset. Nobody is forcing him to go to that restaurant. He knows he won't enjoy going, and yet he continues to go, and then complain. No, you didn't say that being nasty was necessary, however the poster I was responding to was in fact being nasty by suggesting that the musician he went to see was "being lazy". He has no idea what that musicians motivation is, and has no right to make that kind of assumption. I'm not saying that DCI shouldn't listen to comments being made, but posting on a message board doesn't tell DCI anything. The point is, complaining about something doesn't help. Fans who don't like what DCI is can do a couple of different things. They can try complaining directly to DCI. They can stop going to shows, or they can go to shows and try to actually enjoy what the activity has become. But going to a show that you know you won't like, and then complaining endlessly about it just irritates everyone around them. That is my point. Now, as to whether or not DCI should/will listen to the "old school" crowd. Whether you think they should or not, they won't. Again, the activity has always evolved. People were angry when the grounded front ensemble started. People were angry when Bb horns showed up. People were angry when Asymmetrical drill started. The activity has always moved forward, and while the dissatisfied crowd is always vocal, they are also usually the minority. People are always more motivated and vocal when they are upset about something than when they are happy about it. The fact is, as younger members come up having known nothing but electronics in their marching bands, and in their drum corps, they aren't upset by it. Is amplification going to draw more people in? Maybe not, but its not driving people away in droves the way that some people might suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 To refresh your ailing memory, here are a few quotes from DCP concerning Cavaliers last year: So audio... Dig up about a hundred more of these or what you have proven is that last year there were 6 complaints about the cavaliers use of mic'd soloists... I bet we get there with BD before the end of next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I remember someone (Gadget?) saying that the rules made all these things legal and he got flamed for being a fear monger. He didn't say it would happen, just that it would be legal. He wasn't the only one. Ream and myself (among others) both said that the passing of a&e would open a "Pandora's Box" for the future legalization of "anything goes" drum corps. Edited July 1, 2011 by skajerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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