lcarbonell Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) I just have to comment about the Bucs.... For those who say that it's bad that only one corps is up at the top and it's bad for the circuit, I have to strongly disagree. The Bucs ability to perform at such a high level have made everyone else aspire to a much higher level of performance on their own. Look at the circuit in 2000 compared to today. You have to agree that DCA is much improved from the top to the bottom. All corps aspire to better because of the Bucs dominance. No one is sitting back trying to compete for 2nd place. By the way, weren't the same people complaining when the Brigs were dominant from the late 90s! GO DCA! Shields UP, Mr. Sulu! My two cents.... Edited July 3, 2011 by lcarbonell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellomom08 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) I attended the Brigeport show last night, sat around the 40-yard line towards the top of the stadium. When I watch shows, I primarily watch the hornline, so I'm sure you'll see that bias in here. However, typically when I do notice another section, it's because they were exceptional. As such, how I perceive each corps in terms of ranking, and how they usually end up is pretty similar. I'll start from the top. Les Diplomates - Decent sized corps, and I'm glad that they finally made it down to Bridgeport after last year's border fiasco. They struggled at time, corps seemed out of tune, and not very well balanced. That being said, they were an exhibition corps with a full field show. They played recognizable tunes, and given more time, will be quite the joy to listen too. Westchester Brassmen - What an unexpected treat! They came out with a huge drumline for a standstill, and a loud, powerful hornline. They played many tunes that are staples in drum corps, including several memorable tributes to other corps (Georgia on my mind, mag 7/mariah, etc.) They really got the crowd going, and set the crowd up well for the competitive portion. Fusion - I'm not sure specifically about numbers, but I believe they were in the low 20s in terms of horns, decent sized drumline, and a relatively small guard. Everyone in that hornline can play, and it shows. For a small corps, they were clean, had dramatic impacts, and memorable soloists. Good use of screamers mixed in with the corps. The Africa theme was pretty cool, had some solid drum beats, but seemed to be a little hectic. Overall, I agree with their placement, however I thought the spread between them and Cabs was a bit too much. Bush - Very small, I think 13 horns, 3/3/3 from the Drumline, and 5 guard? Everyone always writes in their reviews, "Oh they'll be fine... They'll make a late season push." I don't see it happening, and I do not think they're fine. They performed well, but it's hard performing a demanding field show with 13 horns. The demand on the individual is too much. Stronger players stick out like a sore thumb, and it becomes tough. Great job by the performers, but I worry. Park City Pride - As there was no formal intermission, I took this time to go attend to 'other' business. What I did see was well performed and well received. The cymbal line and the colorguard are always a blast to watch. Cabs - Were a mess. I sat around a group of people who believed, after it was all over, that the Cabs should have won the show(which appears to have been a common sentiment). I wholeheartedly disagree. The nature of their music is exciting, and really gets a crowd going. That's just the nature of the music though, it was performed to varying degrees of excellence. The hornline was loud, but at times it just sounded like everyone was playing different rythyms at full volume, which just blends together to form I don't know what. Also, the drill was a mess. The rotating company front at the end is something that was executed much more effectively by their alumni corps. The guard was solid and well staged throughout. The guard uniforms I wasn't so sure about, but they grew on me throughout the show. Personally, I think they should put their main guard performer in a more distinct dress. She performed extremely well, but I lost her amongst the other guard at times. Lastly, where's the beef? and by beef, I mean drumline. Very small drumline, that got swallowed up by the rest of the corps. I know they've made some personnel changes in the drumline, not sure how well that's working for them yet. Overall and contrary to the people around me, I agree with the placement and believe the spread was appropriate. Bucs - Left me shaking my head. Shaking my head because they were stupid good and it didn't seem fair. I noticed ALL sections of this corps, and ALL performed extremely well. They did ALL the little things right, and had powerful, talent, and tight execution in all sections. I was a big fan of the dancing theme. It had many recognizable tunes, which were well played. For this earlier in the season, the drill was ridiculously clean and demanding. They appeared to get a little tired at the end, but only in comparison to themselves at the beginning of the show. Them at their worst of the show, was still better than anyone else at their best. I do not think that this is the year that Bucs will be beat, unless MBI comes out with something crazy. As you can see from my first couple sentences, the problem is that "ALL" are contributing. Every section is too good. They lost colorguard, but their colorguard was still #### good, while the rest of the sections were great. Overall, I agree with the placement, and think the spread should have been more. Corps will say, "It's just 3 points," but that 3 points has to be made up by ALL sections of another corps. Empire - The other group which everyone loved and, if not the Cabs, thought should of won. They came out with a hornline comparable in size to the Bucs, but I was a little dissapointed in comparison. They start the show backfield, and when they turned around before their big hit, I was expecting to get my face ripped off. I was sorely dissapointed. It was loud, but not what I was expecting. The drill and guard work was a bit slow compared to others, but well performed. I didn't enjoy their arrangements of the Michael Jackson songs they played. However, this was their first show, and if anyone knows how to juice a show, it's Empire. So for THIS show, I was a little let down, but I believe that with practice and tweaking of the show, it will be the same crowd-pleasing GE-fest it always is. Their drum major was also a treat to watch, he was AMPED. Overall, I agree with the placement and the spread. But I think they have more upside potential and will end in front of the Hurcs by the end of the season. Hurcs - Strong showing with their Gershwin theme. Their hornline had a great sound, but the tubas tend to get a bit honky at times. The sound also comes and goes a lot more than other corps, indicative of people dropping out at the wrong times. They have a smaller hornline than the other top corps, so they can't get away with things with that. I thoroughly enjoyed the Mag 7 tag during their opener, and it brought some cheers from the crowd. The drill was a bit slower than prior years, but well written, especially in terms of guard staging. Their guard was INCREDIBLE, and it almost makes the other sections look bad. The drill was a bit fuzzy at times, and individuals stick out musically and visually. I've noticed this is a chronic problem with the hurcs of the past few years. They always come out strong, but don't improve consistently over the season. I hope they have a plan for that, but I think it just comes down to member commitment. Everyone has to be on board. I wish them the best of luck, as I long for a corps other than the usual suspects to break the top 3. Overall, I agree with the placement, and spread, but I think their upside potential is lower than Empire. Cabs Alumni - I'm getting a bit tired of typing, so just pretend I wrote what everyone always write about them. Good and loud, a treat to the crowd. Encore - Cabs Alumni came out with their cabs competing corps, and played the same exact same iconoic song that the alumni had played minutes earlier. Took forever to set up, and wasn't really anything special to me. I much would've rather had seen a Bucs encore. Was this planned in advance? Everyone around me sort of looked at each other afterwards and said, "Wait... That's it? Are the Bucs coming back out?" One last thing, the $5 ticket price was fantastic to me. I don't know how it shook out financially for the barnum festival, but there were a ton of people around me that "haven't been to one of these things in years". I even brought 3 people that never go to shows. The $5 is a much easier sell for those uninitiated to drum corps than a $20 show is. That was a bit more than brief, but I hope you enjoyed it. As usual, these are just opinions blah blah blah, but feel free to light up the barbecue and flame away. Blah, blah, blah just opinions ... rump Edited July 3, 2011 by mellomom08 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayre Kulp Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I just have to comment about the Bucs.... For those who say that it's bad that only one corps is up at the top and it's bad for the circuit, I have to strongly disagree. The Bucs ability to perform at such a high level have made everyone else aspire to a much higher level of performance on their own. Look at the circuit in 2000 compared to today. You have to agree that DCA is much improved from the top to the bottom. All corps aspire to better because of the Bucs dominance. No one is sitting back trying to compete for 2nd place. By the way, weren't the same people complaining when the Brigs were dominant from the late 90s! GO DCA! Shields UP, Mr. Sulu! My two cents.... That's a good point, Larry. I was thinking the very same thing while watching Tampa Bay Thunder perform last night. Ten years ago, that would have been a top-5 show. That's not meant to be a discredit to TBT, but rather illustrates just how far the all-age activity has come in a relatively short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Cabs - Were a mess. I sat around a group of people who believed, after it was all over, that the Cabs should have won the show(which appears to have been a common sentiment). You probably overheard some oldtimers discussing the '64 A.L. Championships.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradocorp Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) I just have to comment about the Bucs.... For those who say that it's bad that only one corps is up at the top and it's bad for the circuit, I have to strongly disagree. The Bucs ability to perform at such a high level have made everyone else aspire to a much higher level of performance on their own. Look at the circuit in 2000 compared to today. You have to agree that DCA is much improved from the top to the bottom. All corps aspire to better because of the Bucs dominance. No one is sitting back trying to compete for 2nd place. By the way, weren't the same people complaining when the Brigs were dominant from the late 90s! GO DCA! Shields UP, Mr. Sulu! My two cents.... My point though is that with less real competition and of course 'costs' we have 46% fewer contests this year than in 1996 for instance plus add few butts in seats. But reality - DCI faces a similar issue though they are faring better for now. DCI would be in deep stuff if they had not shifted their focus to 'bands' from hard corp drum corp folk. It's a marketing thing and was glad to see DCA/DCI have joined forces to do a better job of marketing the new look of the activity. I marched a show down the Jersey Shore in 1964 - 5 Junior corps - it was at my HS stadium with a capacity of 5800 seats - the place was packed. I went to a Jersey DCI show two years ago - if there were 3000 people at the show that was a lot. The quality of the corps today is superb, but the product wasn't selling as good as it should. Edited July 3, 2011 by coloradocorp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayre Kulp Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 My point though is that with less real competition and of course 'costs' we have 46% fewer contests this year than in 1996 for instance plus add few butts in seats. But reality - DCI faces a similar issue though they are faring better for now. DCI would be in deep stuff if they had not shifted their focus to 'bands' from hard corp drum corp folk. It's a marketing thing and was glad to see DCA/DCI have joined forces to do a better job of marketing the new look of the activity. I marched a show down the Jersey Shore in 1964 - 5 Junior corps - it was at my HS stadium with a capacity of 5800 seats - the place was packed. I went to a Jersey DCI show two years ago - if there were 3000 people at the show that was a lot. The quality of the corps today is superb, but the product wasn't selling as good as it should. We're in a niche activity. It just doesn't have the same hold on people as it used to. People would rather see a movie in 3D than a drum corps show. They'd rather download Angry Birds for their smart phones than go to local festivals and carnivals. The fact that drum corps continues to find a way to survive in spite of all this still boggles my mind some times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabalumnidrummer Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I attended the Brigeport show last night, sat around the 40-yard line towards the top of the stadium. When I watch shows, I primarily watch the hornline, so I'm sure you'll see that bias in here. However, typically when I do notice another section, it's because they were exceptional. As such, how I perceive each corps in terms of ranking, and how they usually end up is pretty similar. I'll start from the top. Les Diplomates - Decent sized corps, and I'm glad that they finally made it down to Bridgeport after last year's border fiasco. They struggled at time, corps seemed out of tune, and not very well balanced. That being said, they were an exhibition corps with a full field show. They played recognizable tunes, and given more time, will be quite the joy to listen too. Westchester Brassmen - What an unexpected treat! They came out with a huge drumline for a standstill, and a loud, powerful hornline. They played many tunes that are staples in drum corps, including several memorable tributes to other corps (Georgia on my mind, mag 7/mariah, etc.) They really got the crowd going, and set the crowd up well for the competitive portion. Fusion - I'm not sure specifically about numbers, but I believe they were in the low 20s in terms of horns, decent sized drumline, and a relatively small guard. Everyone in that hornline can play, and it shows. For a small corps, they were clean, had dramatic impacts, and memorable soloists. Good use of screamers mixed in with the corps. The Africa theme was pretty cool, had some solid drum beats, but seemed to be a little hectic. Overall, I agree with their placement, however I thought the spread between them and Cabs was a bit too much. Bush - Very small, I think 13 horns, 3/3/3 from the Drumline, and 5 guard? Everyone always writes in their reviews, "Oh they'll be fine... They'll make a late season push." I don't see it happening, and I do not think they're fine. They performed well, but it's hard performing a demanding field show with 13 horns. The demand on the individual is too much. Stronger players stick out like a sore thumb, and it becomes tough. Great job by the performers, but I worry. Park City Pride - As there was no formal intermission, I took this time to go attend to 'other' business. What I did see was well performed and well received. The cymbal line and the colorguard are always a blast to watch. Cabs - Were a mess. I sat around a group of people who believed, after it was all over, that the Cabs should have won the show(which appears to have been a common sentiment). I wholeheartedly disagree. The nature of their music is exciting, and really gets a crowd going. That's just the nature of the music though, it was performed to varying degrees of excellence. The hornline was loud, but at times it just sounded like everyone was playing different rythyms at full volume, which just blends together to form I don't know what. Also, the drill was a mess. The rotating company front at the end is something that was executed much more effectively by their alumni corps. The guard was solid and well staged throughout. The guard uniforms I wasn't so sure about, but they grew on me throughout the show. Personally, I think they should put their main guard performer in a more distinct dress. She performed extremely well, but I lost her amongst the other guard at times. Lastly, where's the beef? and by beef, I mean drumline. Very small drumline, that got swallowed up by the rest of the corps. I know they've made some personnel changes in the drumline, not sure how well that's working for them yet. Overall and contrary to the people around me, I agree with the placement and believe the spread was appropriate. Bucs - Left me shaking my head. Shaking my head because they were stupid good and it didn't seem fair. I noticed ALL sections of this corps, and ALL performed extremely well. They did ALL the little things right, and had powerful, talent, and tight execution in all sections. I was a big fan of the dancing theme. It had many recognizable tunes, which were well played. For this earlier in the season, the drill was ridiculously clean and demanding. They appeared to get a little tired at the end, but only in comparison to themselves at the beginning of the show. Them at their worst of the show, was still better than anyone else at their best. I do not think that this is the year that Bucs will be beat, unless MBI comes out with something crazy. As you can see from my first couple sentences, the problem is that "ALL" are contributing. Every section is too good. They lost colorguard, but their colorguard was still #### good, while the rest of the sections were great. Overall, I agree with the placement, and think the spread should have been more. Corps will say, "It's just 3 points," but that 3 points has to be made up by ALL sections of another corps. Empire - The other group which everyone loved and, if not the Cabs, thought should of won. They came out with a hornline comparable in size to the Bucs, but I was a little dissapointed in comparison. They start the show backfield, and when they turned around before their big hit, I was expecting to get my face ripped off. I was sorely dissapointed. It was loud, but not what I was expecting. The drill and guard work was a bit slow compared to others, but well performed. I didn't enjoy their arrangements of the Michael Jackson songs they played. However, this was their first show, and if anyone knows how to juice a show, it's Empire. So for THIS show, I was a little let down, but I believe that with practice and tweaking of the show, it will be the same crowd-pleasing GE-fest it always is. Their drum major was also a treat to watch, he was AMPED. Overall, I agree with the placement and the spread. But I think they have more upside potential and will end in front of the Hurcs by the end of the season. Hurcs - Strong showing with their Gershwin theme. Their hornline had a great sound, but the tubas tend to get a bit honky at times. The sound also comes and goes a lot more than other corps, indicative of people dropping out at the wrong times. They have a smaller hornline than the other top corps, so they can't get away with things with that. I thoroughly enjoyed the Mag 7 tag during their opener, and it brought some cheers from the crowd. The drill was a bit slower than prior years, but well written, especially in terms of guard staging. Their guard was INCREDIBLE, and it almost makes the other sections look bad. The drill was a bit fuzzy at times, and individuals stick out musically and visually. I've noticed this is a chronic problem with the hurcs of the past few years. They always come out strong, but don't improve consistently over the season. I hope they have a plan for that, but I think it just comes down to member commitment. Everyone has to be on board. I wish them the best of luck, as I long for a corps other than the usual suspects to break the top 3. Overall, I agree with the placement, and spread, but I think their upside potential is lower than Empire. Cabs Alumni - I'm getting a bit tired of typing, so just pretend I wrote what everyone always write about them. Good and loud, a treat to the crowd. Encore - Cabs Alumni came out with their cabs competing corps, and played the same exact same iconoic (sic) song that the alumni had played minutes earlier. Took forever to set up, and wasn't really anything special to me. I much would've rather had seen a Bucs encore. Was this planned in advance? Everyone around me sort of looked at each other afterwards and said, "Wait... That's it? Are the Bucs coming back out?" One last thing, the $5 ticket price was fantastic to me. I don't know how it shook out financially for the barnum festival, but there were a ton of people around me that "haven't been to one of these things in years". I even brought 3 people that never go to shows. The $5 is a much easier sell for those uninitiated to drum corps than a $20 show is. That was a bit more than brief, but I hope you enjoyed it. As usual, these are just opinions blah blah blah, but feel free to light up the barbecue and flame away. Phalanx, I appreciate your taking the time to review the show, and respect your opinions. However, I would to clarify the situation about the 'Encore' that the two Hawthorne corps were asked to play. These things are not always explained to the public, unfortunately: 1) It was not their idea to do it, they were asked by the Barnum organizers to do it in lieu of a victory concert by the winner. 2) Our management tried to convince the organizers it should have been done prior to retreat, not as an afterthought when folks wanted to leave, or hear a victory concert. 3) Because of the timing of it, yes, it did take an inordinate amount of time for the two corps to set up, whereas they could have been ready far more quickly right after the alumni finished. Again, not our idea. Not making excuses or apologies -- just trying to give the 'back story' to what was a somewhat awkward position for my corps to be in. I can tell you, few if any of the participants from both corps were happy about it at all. The alumni corps members were out there on the field for the better part of an hour from the time they entered until they finally got to march off. It really was asking too much of them to be out there that long, in my opinion. As for the competing corps being 'a mess,' I respectfully disagree, but I fear my view would be considered biased. Suffice to say, I spoke with several folks who were pleased with what they saw and how they performed. They felt the corps showed a big improvement over the first contest. I just hope judges keep an open mind and judge the performance of any given contest. There's still a lot of season left to go. Thanks for letting add my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 "Being a Mess": Perhaps. In 1972 at the "Barnum", Caballers must also have been a "Mess" 1. 85.65 New York Skyliners 2. 81.65 Connecticut Hurricanes 3. 81.55 Baltimore Yankee Rebels 4. 78.90 Hawthorne Caballeros 5. 73.55 Les Diplomates For those with short memories, Caballeros WON the 1972 DCA Championship. Don't count anyone out, EVER.... Scores courtesy of the DCA Archive. Elphaba WWW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishbugle Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I just hope judges keep an open mind and judge the performance of any given contest. I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, they don't. This is something that is getting under my skin these last few years. And before anyone says anything- I understand, the Judges are people too, and it's impossible for them to erase the slate and judge fresh every week. However in today's activity it seems like it's almost impossible for a corps to have a chance to move in either direction every week. We have all seen it before. Corps A beats Corps B by a point one week, than the following week Corps A has a bad performance, an "off night" and Corps B has a great performance. Corps B will still be below Corps A. Even on the new sheets and judging system, looking at the recap from Bridgeport, the two corps that lights up the crowds and had an energized performance still didn't get those extra points properly. Maybe I am not understanding the "communication" column correctly but I though it was supposed to "reward" the groups that had a great show that night. In Bridgeport, IMO, it didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 "Being a Mess": Perhaps. In 1972 at the "Barnum", Caballers must also have been a "Mess" 1. 85.65 New York Skyliners 2. 81.65 Connecticut Hurricanes 3. 81.55 Baltimore Yankee Rebels 4. 78.90 Hawthorne Caballeros 5. 73.55 Les Diplomates For those with short memories, Caballeros WON the 1972 DCA Championship. Don't count anyone out, EVER.... Scores courtesy of the DCA Archive. Elphaba WWW I think the problem with all these examples of history is that the most recent example of a corps coming from far behind to win it all has been 1997. Guys, that was 14 years ago! That is a long time. 1972 was even further! That was DCI's first year for crying out loud. I am pretty sure there are different people running the Caballeros now. Look, I am sure their show is difficult and they will mot certainly improve. I even understand alumni and current marchers keeping their eye on the prize, but with their drumline having some turnover and ailing and EVERY section of the Bucs being extremely strong, the group that beats them is not going to have any weaknesses. Please keep in mind that I did not say the Bucs are unbeatable, just that a group that is playing as much catch-up out of the gate as the Cabs, probably is not going to be anyone's pick to know them off... and as difficult as I am sure their show is, the Bucs show is probably also very difficult. Sometimes difficult shows look easier because they are being performed at such a high level. Sometimes easier shows look more difficult because they are not being performed at a high level. Again, not saying their show is not difficult, but I think people are thinking the Cabs are going to storm back and beat the Bucs based on demand, and I just do not see the staff of the Bucs under programing that badly... otherwise they would not be going for their seventh straight title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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