What happened to pleasing the crowd?

[Drum Corps Nation]

After reading the recent post's, just thought I'd try to clarify some of what my original post was going for...

When I wrote the original post, I was at work (boring day), trying to blaze through the thoughts that were going through my head and put them here as fast as I could. I read through it again but didn't have time to change some of it, but i figured it was good enough to get an adult conversation going. I tried to think of everything people would say, to challenge what I was saying, and write accordingly as clearly as I could. I didn't take into account that because it was so long ppl wouldn't actually comprehend what I was saying and where I was trying to go. I sure as heck wasn't trying to make any current or past corps look bad, as a former member, that would be dumb. By "boring" i didn't mean all the kids/staff on those drum corps sucked, I just meant, to me, it wasn't entertaining and I thought with all that talent, couldnt they have done something better?

Let me put it this way. Take the Camaro, Mustang, Challenger for example. The original 60's/70 muscle cars. These cars are cherished today by the people that lived through that era. I would venture to say that most young people today would appreciate them also. So what did Ford, Chevy and Dodge do? They took they original iconic design and infused with with todays technology and capabilites and presto! Bad A** cars! Everyone wants them again.

Could this be what Drum Corps needs to do? This is all i'm trying to say.

I don't care what kind of Horn you use, Bugle, trumpet, B, G, Silver, Gold...

I don't care what kind of drums you play...

I'm not saying I hate all color guard, cause they don't twirl 16 rifles at once or toss flags over the horn lines while the drumline is doing a solo...

I don't care if you play Jazz, Orchestral, Blues, Soundtracks whatever...

I don't care about electronics and how they sound with the rest of the corps...

I'm not saying every corps should be like Madison...

I'm not saying bring back the old days exactly like they were and lets forget how far drum corps has advanced over the past 30 years or how I'm trying to live in the past...

all i'm saying is for the love of God ENTERTAIN ME! Make it cool!!

Who wouldn't want to see a corps like, The Bridgemen or VK in the 80's/90's? (disclaimer: the reference to "80's/90's" does not mean the poster wants to go back to that era)

I saw a post in the Denver thread tonight from someone who says why are they wasting their talents on shows that are not enjoyable to most fans in the crowd. (posted at 11:32pm post #330) wow...someone said that? thats blasphemy. and of course, he got flamed for it later.

I completely understand what you're saying, and I think I understood all that from the original post, but I think you're not getting two things.

1) What entertains you is not necessarily what entertains everyone else.

And 2) writing an entertaining show is not as easy as it might seem. Especially when you have to write something that is both difficult enough to earn credit from judges, entertaining enough to get the crowd responding, and most of all, achievable for the 150 people that you don't even have yet when you write the show. Please keep in mind that a lot of the people who are out there writing the shows and teaching the corps right now are people who marched in the same era and love the same shows that you do. They're not out their trying to ruin the activity. They're doing the best that they can and they're doing it because they love the activity, certainly not for the money.

[Liahona]

I completely understand what you're saying, and I think I understood all that from the original post, but I think you're not getting two things.

1) What entertains you is not necessarily what entertains everyone else.

And 2) writing an entertaining show is not as easy as it might seem. Especially when you have to write something that is both difficult enough to earn credit from judges, entertaining enough to get the crowd responding, and most of all, achievable for the 150 people that you don't even have yet when you write the show. Please keep in mind that a lot of the people who are out there writing the shows and teaching the corps right now are people who marched in the same era and love the same shows that you do. They're not out their trying to ruin the activity. They're doing the best that they can and they're doing it because they love the activity, certainly not for the money.

#3 Entertaining does not equal gold medal either.

[jjd2]

Too bad when a poster gives us his heartfelt opinion he is blasted by people that don't share his view point..........I do...he is right......the excuses used about the copyright problems are a complete crock....but a great out..........DCI truly dropped the ball here....they have to fight in a business like manner the fight that could bring familiarity back to corps...very interesting that TV shows such as Glee use these same tunes.....and the show is off the chart popular. Drum Corps and Bands eat their own with the adjudicators and creative gurus (I use the term loosley)dictating certain styles and gendres that will put this activity into the opera category.....bring entertainment back..and you may find the number of people at shows and participating (# of groups) start to grow. may not have to be bumped by spelling bees on ESPN (not that there's anything wrong with that?!)

That was a good post thank you.

[rosski47]

Too bad when a poster gives us his heartfelt opinion he is blasted by people that don't share his view point..........I do...he is right......the excuses used about the copyright problems are a complete crock....but a great out..........DCI truly dropped the ball here....they have to fight in a business like manner the fight that could bring familiarity back to corps...very interesting that TV shows such as Glee use these same tunes.....and the show is off the chart popular. Drum Corps and Bands eat their own with the adjudicators and creative gurus (I use the term loosley)dictating certain styles and gendres that will put this activity into the opera category.....bring entertainment back..and you may find the number of people at shows and participating (# of groups) start to grow. may not have to be bumped by spelling bees on ESPN (not that there's anything wrong with that?!)

That was a good post thank you.

Hardly anyone is blasting him. If everyone was just blasting him, this thread wouldn't have lasted 15 pages.

I understand what he's saying, I just disagree.

I, as well as plenty others, are greatly entertained by current shows, especially shows he listed as primary examples of how the shows are not entertained.

No need to act like a victim, and I'm sorry today's shows aren't entertaining for YOU. I will continue to support DCI with my money and my presence until it reaches the point where it doesn't entertain me anymore, at which point I'll bow out.

[WIS]

Ah, yes - thanks for the reminder on the "Johnny 3-Note" comment, it had a slight bite to it.

Contrary to what some seem to believe, much of what was played decades ago was not easy at all. There were some very challenging arrangements that were exceedingly well performed. The recording process was undeniably inferior to current processes, but the abilities of many of those who performed then were far from amateur.

Hahaha Tin - that comment made me start humming Johnny One Note and now it won't get out of my head - I hate when that happens.

[rainshdw08]

I completely understand what you're saying, and I think I understood all that from the original post, but I think you're not getting two things.

1) What entertains you is not necessarily what entertains everyone else.

And 2) writing an entertaining show is not as easy as it might seem. Especially when you have to write something that is both difficult enough to earn credit from judges, entertaining enough to get the crowd responding, and most of all, achievable for the 150 people that you don't even have yet when you write the show. Please keep in mind that a lot of the people who are out there writing the shows and teaching the corps right now are people who marched in the same era and love the same shows that you do. They're not out their trying to ruin the activity. They're doing the best that they can and they're doing it because they love the activity, certainly not for the money.

First, not a flame to your response.

To respond to #1 - C'mon now...do you seriously think I don't understand that? Really? I don't know how many times I marched into a stadium wondering "hmm, what kind of crowd are we getting tonight" Some crowds all you had to do was march onto the field with no playing of any kind and you would get . Some, it didn't matter if you could played your best show ever, and thinking "this part usually makes the crowd go wild and jump to their feet screaming", but this crowd would just sit there and with a smattering of people going . I do know that, trust me.

as for #2 - Personally, I have never written a show...but that doesn't mean I don't understand what it takes to write one, however I have so many shows in my head i'd like to write its not even funny. I marched for enough years to grasp what it takes to write a show, train everyone what the vision of that show is, then have to change things to please the judges while still trying to keep it entertaining...not that it would be easy by any means or be one of the more challenging things i've ever done. But because of DCI, I don't think they had too much of a choice if they wanted to win or score higher than someone who would write to the judges. Maybe now with Cesario in there it'll change, only time will tell.

I do know that the people out there writing these shows are from my era of shows I (and many others) like and would never think any of them would be out to ruin anything and I do know why they're doing it...No offense but this isn't my first rodeo.

[RobG]

"When *you* was my age? When my old man was my age, when my brother was my age... You was never my age, none of ya! And the sooner you creeps get hip to that, the sooner you'll dig us!"

I love West Side Story

[khoutler]

"What happened to pleasing the crowd?"

Three words...Mad, is, in.

[rainshdw08]

"What happened to pleasing the crowd?"

Three words...Mad, is, in.

Word!

[Drum Corps Nation]

First, not a flame to your response.

To respond to #1 - C'mon now...do you seriously think I don't understand that? Really? I don't know how many times I marched into a stadium wondering "hmm, what kind of crowd are we getting tonight" Some crowds all you had to do was march onto the field with no playing of any kind and you would get . Some, it didn't matter if you could played your best show ever, and thinking "this part usually makes the crowd go wild and jump to their feet screaming", but this crowd would just sit there and with a smattering of people going . I do know that, trust me.

as for #2 - Personally, I have never written a show...but that doesn't mean I don't understand what it takes to write one, however I have so many shows in my head i'd like to write its not even funny. I marched for enough years to grasp what it takes to write a show, train everyone what the vision of that show is, then have to change things to please the judges while still trying to keep it entertaining...not that it would be easy by any means or be one of the more challenging things i've ever done. But because of DCI, I don't think they had too much of a choice if they wanted to win or score higher than someone who would write to the judges. Maybe now with Cesario in there it'll change, only time will tell.

I do know that the people out there writing these shows are from my era of shows I (and many others) like and would never think any of them would be out to ruin anything and I do know why they're doing it...No offense but this isn't my first rodeo.

If you truly understood #1, I don't think you would have written your original post, because understanding #1 completely negates your original post. You still haven't been very specific about what it means to "please the crowd". The crowd isn't some collective mentality. The crowd is very diverse and all wants to see different things. So what exactly do you want??? And when you tell me what, I'll tell you what I want, and they will be different, and then we'll be right back where we started. See?

I'm sure everyone who has ever marched has thought, "It'd be really awesome to do a show like this", and some of them have become writers, and some of them haven't. I have written lots of shows for lots of different types of groups. It's a lot more difficult than picking a theme, picking some music, writing some drill, and teaching it. There is a very fine line between an awesome show and a cheesy show. And the corps directors and designers aren't out there trying to write to the judges either. Usually they are trying to write to the fans and the crowd, but want credit from the judges because of the competitiveness of the activity. I know a lot of show designers who write for DCI corps, and I have never once heard any of them say "Screw the crowd, the judges are gonna love this!" They write to please as many people as possible, and I think that your views represent only a very small portion of the overall audience. The audience is mostly parents (band parents), high school students, band directors and music educators, college band students and staff, etc... and those people are used to watching high school bands that do BOA, USSBA, winterguard, indoor drumline. Likewise, the instructors and designers and performers of DCI are a conglomeration of these other activities, and it's only natural for DCI to bring in elements of design from those other activities. My point is that your comments insinuate that the solution to this problem (the solution being pleasing YOUR tastes) is very simple. And it's just not.