History of the Cymbal LIne

[Madrid]

Hello all,

I'm currently working on a new cymbal book for my students and wanted to include some information in regards to the history of the cymbal line in Drum Corps. I would love to obtain information in regards to adaptation of styles over the years, garfield vs. pistol grip lines (which technique was used first and how did it evolve), sizes and types of cymbals and how those changed through out the years, how the visual application of the instrument evolved and when/whom was at the forefront of this, pictures -- ALL OF IT!

I would really appreciate any and all help/stories/information that any of you would be willing to provide. I have seen other instruments given such treatment and wanted to do the same for the cymbal players of the world.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

[Gary Matczak]

Hello all,

I'm currently working on a new cymbal book for my students and wanted to include some information in regards to the history of the cymbal line in Drum Corps. I would love to obtain information in regards to adaptation of styles over the years, garfield vs. pistol grip lines (which technique was used first and how did it evolve), sizes and types of cymbals and how those changed through out the years, how the visual application of the instrument evolved and when/whom was at the forefront of this, pictures -- ALL OF IT!

I would really appreciate any and all help/stories/information that any of you would be willing to provide. I have seen other instruments given such treatment and wanted to do the same for the cymbal players of the world.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

Look into the Connecticut Hurricanes,.................there is a whole chapier there

[drmr27]

Contact Thom Hannum. He did his thesis on marching cymbals.

[Jpn]

Madison Scouts -- Madison generally has marched four cymbals. In the early days (1950s and 1960s), smaller cymbals were used, with a wool pad and leather straps that was fed between the first and second fingers.. The cymbals were "twirled" in various ways that i don't think are seen today. E.G. (1) single twirl at the top; (2) out in front from the belt line; (3) a slow series of twirls coming down from the top; and (4) double twirl at the top. Also the cymbals were used in the "headchopper" drill. Generally, we marched with the cymbals at belt level when not in use.

[IllianaLancerContra]

No discussion would be complete without including the Velvet Knights Sex Cymbals....

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/65458-1987-velvet-knights-sex-cymbals/page__p__1057993__hl__%22sex+cymbals%22__fromsearch__1#entry1057993

[spirit7698]

Most definitely talk to Hannum. A friend that I taught with in 04/05 was marching Crossmen and sat near Hannum on the bus. He got some of those ideas from one of the cymbal players.

Also look up Diaz Clark who was at Spirit when Float was there then went to Suncoast Sound and created a whole other style. He took that style to Magic, Southwind, Spirit, Bluecoats and Colts. Look up Robert Chavira ( spelled right? ) from SCV. He has been there for decades ( early 80's ) and that line has been the heart of the drum corps ever since and was one of the ( if not THE ) innovators on the West Coast. Although guys that aged out of those SCV lines usually tech on tour, Robert is still on tour every now and then. John Donovan was in the line at Cadets I think in the lare 80's/early 90's and he took that style to Jersey Surf and possibly East Coast Jazz (?).

I am not sure who taught the cymbal line at Cadets in the 80'S but Laurie ( don't remember last name ) aged out of Cadets in 86 and brought that style to Spirit in 87. Lance ( Spirit late 80's ) continued it on 95 Spirit we had Holly and Beth Elder, 96 Diaz Clark for a few camps then 97 until 2004 Eddie Capps. Eddie and Andrew Nixon changed things up at Spirit in 2001 incorporating some of the west coast techniques and refreshed a bit of the way they played in 90- 93.

Sorry I don't know much about Mid-West players/playing. There is also a great book on cymbals in general and you gotta check it out. Some serious history on the Zildjian family and Turkey and also Asia.

It's called " The Cymbal Book ". Also checkout Eddie Capps book " Cymbal Techniques 101 " I will ask around for some more last names.

Edited July 28, 2011 by spirit7698

[Madrid]

Most definitely talk to Hannum. A friend that I taught with in 04/05 was marching Crossmen and sat near Hannum on the bus. He got some of those ideas from one of the cymbal players.

Also look up Diaz Clark who was at Spirit when Float was there then went to Suncoast Sound and created a whole other style. He took that style to Magic, Southwind, Spirit, Bluecoats and Colts. Look up Robert Chavira ( spelled right? ) from SCV. He has been there for decades ( early 80's ) and that line has been the heart of the drum corps ever since and was one of the ( if not THE ) innovators on the West Coast. Although guys that aged out of those SCV lines usually tech on tour, Robert is still on tour every now and then. John Donovan was in the line at Cadets I think in the lare 80's/early 90's and he took that style to Jersey Surf and possibly East Coast Jazz (?).

I am not sure who taught the cymbal line at Cadets in the 80'S but Laurie ( don't remember last name ) aged out of Cadets in 86 and brought that style to Spirit in 87. Lance ( Spirit late 80's ) continued it on 95 Spirit we had Holly and Beth Elder, 96 Diaz Clark for a few camps then 97 until 2005 Eddie Capps. Eddie and Andrew Nixon changed things up at Spirit in 2001 incorporating some of the west coast techniques and refreshed a bit of the way they played in 90- 93.

Sorry I don't know much about Mid-West players/playing. There is also a great book on cymbals in general and you gotta check it out. Some serious history on the Zildjian family and Turkey and also Asia.

It's called " The Cymbal Book ". Also checkout Eddie Capps book " Cymbal Techniques 101 " I will ask around for some more last names.

This is great! Thank you!

I had no idea that Diaz had so much history. I remember his seeing his lines when he got to Magic and beyond. He was doing quite a bit in WGI scene for awhile, too.

Not sure about John Donovan, though. I thought that that guy was a quad player. I think you may be thinking of Jeff Kozol. I know he marched there at CBC for many years. Not sure if he taught them as well or if he was just there before that plate line got cut.

I'm familiar with both books you mentioned. I know Jeff Kozol also wrote a book and put out a video. The East Coast technique is so interesting. I wonder if it all came from Thom's thesis or if he just maxed out an already existing technique. When did he write that thesis, anyway?

Anyway, thanks for the info., folks! If anybody has more too share, I would love it!

Cheers!

[spirit7698]

This is great! Thank you!

I had no idea that Diaz had so much history. I remember his seeing his lines when he got to Magic and beyond. He was doing quite a bit in WGI scene for a while, too.

Not sure about John Donovan though. I thought that that guy was a quad player. I think you may be thinking of Jeff Kozol. I know he marched there at CBC for many years. Not sure if he taught them as well or if he was just there before that plate line got cut.

I'm familiar with both books you mentioned. I know Jeff Kozol also wrote a book and put out a video. The East Coast technique is so interesting. I wonder if it all came from Thom's thesis or if he just maxed out an already existing technique. When did he write that thesis, anyway?

Anyway, thanks for the info., folks! If anybody has more too share, I would love it!

Cheers!

I am sorry not John Donovan, Jeff Kozol. John is tenor player. Jeff was in the plate line for a year or few before it got cut.

Hannum was writing it for college when he was marching Crossmen. If you know Mike Lucas Crossmen Contra player in those days; He can tell you the name of the cymbal player that came up with all of those sounds, positions and visuals that are in Tom's old book.

Funny thing with the East Coast technique and heck even Diaz'S technique is when Spirit finally beat SCV in I&E ( along with their style change that year ) the whole cymbal game changed on the East coast/Midwest. If you look at Diaz's lines and his student's lines from 2003 on, Jersey Surf and who ever else had a line east of Texas, you will see it.

A little more history:

The only names I am including are people who went on to teach.

Diaz was marching Spirit then as well then marched Suncoast from 82 - 85 since Al was there then taught 86 on.

A guy named Garfield Small brought the Vanguard style of playing to Florida. He was going to march Florida Wave in 91 but they folded. He went to march cymbals in 92 at Florida Guardsmen, 93 Blue devils ( since many Wave people went west since they were taught by Nat ) then aging out at Vanguard in 94.

He taught the cymbal line at Suncoast Sound in 95 and in that line was Andrew Nixon.

Andrew and I were in the cymbal line at Spirit in 95/96 before I went to the snare line. Andrew was in that line from 95 - 98, made the line at SCV in 2000 but by or before may camp they decided to move up a kid up from the C corps who would be around for 4 or 5 more years instead of keeping a " rook out ".

He aged out at Spirit in 2000.

Fast forwarding a bit.

Andrew taught the cymbal line at Tampa Bay Thunder ( II / III back then ) in 2001. In that line was Drew Johannssen and John Bishai. Those guys along with Obed Resendez went on to march at Kiwanis Kaviliers in 2002 with Andrew as their tech and of course the next year they all were at Spirit . 2004 was Colin Choat, Mario Taylor, Obed and Drew. Mario went on to march and ageout at Crossmen in 05, Drew and Colin went on to Magic in 05. There are too many indoor connections as well as college/university connections as to marching and consulting to list with these guys and Eddie, mostly MCM/Odyssey though.

Another connection:

The cymbal lines at Teal Sound have always been taught by Spirit Vets. First with Andrew in 99 , no cymbal line for a few years, me in 04 and 05, Mario in 07 a bit and in 09 ( possibly?) and Obed in 08 / now. Mario went on to teach the re- birthed cymbal line at Spirit in 08, Obed in 09 now teaching there is Jim Powell who was under Eddie and Obed at Odyssey percussion theatre and under Mario while he marched Spirit. Phew!... There.

Let's see. My first 2 years at Spirit of Atlanta we were sponsored by Sabian. The 95 9 person line ( comprised of cymbal players, bass and snare drummers from 95 Suncoast and 2 original Spirit players )

used everything we had. 20" AA drum corps ( too heavy and not good for the Cadets style crashes ) and AA marching band along with one set of HH medium Orchestrals.

When Diaz was there in 96 we had different weight and series cymbals to have more color ( besides all of the color our sounds added ) and a fuller spectrum of frequency to support attacks, melodic lines and harmonic lines of the brass. If I can remember we had 5 players and we used a set of 18" medium thin AA bright rock crash, 18" AA medium crash, 19" HH New Symphonic medium heavy( later changed to Viennese, 18" AA marching band and an 19" HH Germanic.

97 and 98 Spirit was Zildjian Z-Macs ( I think?).

The playing style at Spirit changed because we saw that no matter how precise your technique was or how many years of experience, the old Spirit style ( AKA Cadets style ) you always had a higher percentage of air pocket crashes ( thanks to the exagerated wrists ) than you did with the Vanguard technique ( almost locked wrists ) and with young/first year players, it was a no brainer to make the change. With respect to Robert and the Vanguard, they were at the " vanguard " ( forefront ) when it came to acheiving a high quality and consistent technique.

At Teal in 04/05 although it looked like the Spirit technique, I had them doing a push through on horizontal crashes and not a ( looks like push through but not ) flat crash. Personally I like that sound better. In 04 and 05 everybody who was using the first Zildjian Stadiums were cracking and breaking cymbals. They fixed the thickness/thiness in the bridge/bell connection area without sacrificing sound.

If you want info on the Spirit style in the late 80's under Laurie and early 90's under Lance I would suggest talking to Eddie. Look him up on facebook. I hope you can get some info from the West Coast guys. It is funny all of the parrallels with East Coast/West Coast cymbal styles, rudimental drumming techniques, jazz drumming styles, Jazz in general, 70s/80s/90s hip hop and rap.

Edited July 28, 2011 by spirit7698

[Fastone]

Jeff Kozol marched Cadets in 1989 and the Crossmen prior to that. He instructed a few cymbal sections over the years. In the 60's and 70's there were plenty of cymbal sections that were flashy, the big change came in 83-84 with Garfield's cymbal section and the use of orchestral technique (at least on the east coast)

Edited July 28, 2011 by Fastone

[Madrid]

Wow, thanks again Spirit7698!!! Oceans of information! I feel like I'm putting together a cymbal line family tree! HA!

I teach with one and am in contact with a couple SCV guys about that particular side of things. Definitely some interesting stuff there.

Anybody know anything about the whole Pistol Grip phenomenon?? Is is just a Madison thing or were other corps doing it too? I think I remember seeing SCV using Pistol in the ealry 80's??? Maybe Garfield changing to Orchestral made Vanguard change???