Scouts License problem

[scottgordon]

Copyrights and patents exist to encourage creativity and innovation, but in the last couple of decades, intellectual property as a concept has swung well past common sense into the realm of being abusive to the public domain. With copyrights extending well past anyone's lifetime and patents being granted on mere ideas, "intellectual property" often serves as a means of destroying creativity and preventing innovation rather than promoting it. So to answer your question, why are people losing respect for intellectual property? It's because the "owners" of the "content" are pushing their rights way past common sense.

Is that the situation in Madison's case?

[skywhopper]

Is that the situation in Madison's case?

I don't think so. I was straying from the topic, I admit, but I do think that general lack of respect for copyright because of abuses in other areas will inevitably spread to other copyright-related topics like this one. The question was why was intellectual property not respected. I think it's because it's abused in many situations. That leads people to be less understanding in situations like this one.

[JulesBry]

The fees collected from Madison would be an atom in a water molecule in a drop of water in the ocean of what these companies deal with on a regular basis. Sure, they'd make some money. But at that point, like the above poster alluded to, it's basically their call as to whether they WANT to license at all. I think you overestimate how much money they make from this particular deal vs. what they make total.

Certainly this is small compared to the other revenues they bring in, but if the process is streamlined and efficient, it will bring in a large amount of money as a category with very little work. All they have to do is sign a couple of papers and they get a thousand dollars. Compared to marketing a recording office, publishing music, printing CDs, keeping up websites, and the other ways they make money, I would think this would be welcome easy money.

[Rusty]

If it is the case that Madison might not be able to include the closer, then I am that much more appreciative towards DCI and the G8 for screwing over the Houston show by excluding Madison, BAC, the Glassmen, the Crossmen, et al.

I have not had the opportunity to see the Scouts live. I won't even get to watch them on the quarterfinals broadcast.

Thanks, Hop!

[mobrien]

If it is the case that Madison might not be able to include the closer, then I am that much more appreciative towards DCI and the G8 for screwing over the Houston show by excluding Madison, BAC, the Glassmen, the Crossmen, et al.

I have not had the opportunity to see the Scouts live. I won't even get to watch them on the quarterfinals broadcast.

Thanks, Hop!

Yes, it's Hopkins' fault - hell, it's EVERYONE's fault that the Scouts didn't get sync rights yet for an innocuous pop song.

Edited August 8, 2011 by mobrien

[kevingamin]

I actually did the same thing with a piece of David Arkenstone music a few years back. Couldn't get anything from the publisher, so I Facebooked David himself, wrote him a nice email, and asked if he would grant permission for one of his pieces. He wrote me a wonderful email back, wishing me and the kids best of luck in our marching band season, and in bold letters at the bottom said "<MY SCHOOL> HAS FULL PERMISSION TO USE, ARRANGE, AND RECORD ANY PIECE OF MY MUSIC AT ANY POINT IN THE FUTURE."

It was awesome, and a lot of fun to show to the kids :)

I should send him recordings from '92 and '93 Glassmen, then.

[kevingamin]

I guess that I've never understood the concept behind it anyway. I mean, if you're a composer that came out with a really hot song then why WOULDN'T you want a corps or band to play it? Hell, that's like free advertising.

This phenomenon isn't restricted to the marching arts, either. How many YouTube videos are pulled by the record labels because they can't see they'll make more money from the tracks sold due to exposure as opposed to the licensing fees?

[randomnoise]

Hey Gang,

There are three sets of rights that have to be procured. Back in the day, these rights still had to be procured, but no one did, and no one enforced the law. The three types of permissions (as I understand them, not being a lawyer):

1. Permission to arrange your music for performance. Basically, you pay the owner of the tune for the right to arrange and perform the music. A link was posted to the BOA site that talks about this. You don't have this, you don't take the field.

2. Mechanical rights give you permission to sell a CD. These are relatively inexpensive and easy to get, mostly from the Harry Fox agency.

3. Synch rights give you permission to sell a video. These are usually the most expensive and the toughest to get.

Corps that sell their own CDs and DVDs will need to make sure this all happens. If a corps does not sell audio or video of their show, I can understand why they might want to (or need to) save time and money and not purchase these rights. DCI sells CDs and DVDs, so they purchase these rights (if available).

Not coincidentally, this is why an increasing number of groups (especially marching bands) hire composers instead of arrangers - it is a heck of a lot easier to get rights as part of the package.

[Michael Boo]

If it is the case that Madison might not be able to include the closer, then I am that much more appreciative towards DCI and the G8 for screwing over the Houston show by excluding Madison, BAC, the Glassmen, the Crossmen, et al.

I have not had the opportunity to see the Scouts live. I won't even get to watch them on the quarterfinals broadcast.

Thanks, Hop!

If every one of those corps were in Houston on Friday, July 22, would you feel DCI and the Tour of Champions had screwed over the people who went to the Odessa show that same night, a show that hosted Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Troopers, The Academy, Crossmen, Teal Sound, Pacific Crest, Mandarins and Pioneer (plus Genesis in Open Class)?

Even if those corps could have been in Houston, they couldn't all be on the same night or else the show would have to start in mid-afternoon to get over in time.

But if you really wanted to see corps like The Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Carolina Crown and Phantom Regiment with two of the corps you mentioned, Boston Crusaders Madison Scouts and six others, you could have went to Denton the day before.

But why not just drive over to San Antonio from Houston for the really big DCI Southwestern Championship, where you could have seen ALL World Class corps (except Jersey Surf) and three fine Texas Open Class corps? I know there is a fine expressway connecting San Antonio to Houston, because I drove it after the Houston show was over. So, if you're near Houston, you would have been able to see Madison Scouts live.

And from my understanding, you will be able to see Madison Scouts on the Prelims broadcast. (It's not being called Quarterfinals this year.) Why would you not be able to see them on that broadcast? (Unless you don't go, in which case you might miss more than Scouts.) And, incidentally, the licensing situation with their closer only applies to recorded media, so it won't be muted during the theater broadcast.

[Rusty]

If every one of those corps were in Houston on Friday, July 22, would you feel DCI and the Tour of Champions had screwed over the people who went to the Odessa show that same night, a show that hosted Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Troopers, The Academy, Crossmen, Teal Sound, Pacific Crest, Mandarins and Pioneer (plus Genesis in Open Class)?

Even if those corps could have been in Houston, they couldn't all be on the same night or else the show would have to start in mid-afternoon to get over in time.

But if you really wanted to see corps like The Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Carolina Crown and Phantom Regiment with two of the corps you mentioned, Boston Crusaders Madison Scouts and six others, you could have went to Denton the day before.

But why not just drive over to San Antonio from Houston for the really big DCI Southwestern Championship, where you could have seen ALL World Class corps (except Jersey Surf) and three fine Texas Open Class corps? I know there is a fine expressway connecting San Antonio to Houston, because I drove it after the Houston show was over. So, if you're near Houston, you would have been able to see Madison Scouts live.

And from my understanding, you will be able to see Madison Scouts on the Prelims broadcast. (It's not being called Quarterfinals this year.) Why would you not be able to see them on that broadcast? (Unless you don't go, in which case you might miss more than Scouts.) And, incidentally, the licensing situation with their closer only applies to recorded media, so it won't be muted during the theater broadcast.

To begin with, my Saturdays are generally spoken for these days. I am perfectly aware that San Antonio is fairly accessible from Houston, and there's a good chance I would have gone (as I did in 2008) had I not already had commitments in place. I am also perfectly aware that all corps show up in San Antonio. And I am also perfectly aware that opportunities to see everybody, or at least as many as possible, are fast dwindling due to the deliberate efforts of the G8 to restrict participation of smaller corps to the fullest extent possible.

My personal schedule isn't the point here. Nor is it the matter of the copyright (it's a shame Madison didn't clarify this with the copyright holder before the season started, but that's a separate issue). The problem is that it isn't possible for some of us - a lot of us, given the economy - to stop, drop and drive many miles to be able to see everybody. You act like Denton and Odessa are just a quick drive around the corner. Denton is five hours from Houston. Odessa, nearly nine. I've made the drive to D/FW plenty of times in the past, and while it's technically doable in a single day, in reality it's an exhausting proposition.

You speak about the logistics of getting all the corps to the Houston show like it's some sort of revelation. This was done for years before the Tour of Champions nonsense forced upon the activity by the G8. Every year, there was some give and take, they figured out what was within the realm of the feasible for all involved, and made it work.

But I'm just a humble fan. Consider the impact on the smaller corps. Until this year, we could always count on a big ol' show coming to Houston. Now the largest city in Texas (hey, Dallas, I love you and all, but that's just how it is), the fourth-largest in the nation, and a city with one of the healthiest economies in the United States, is deprived of the opportunity to see everybody. (Adding insult to injury, all four Texas corps have lost the privilege of tapping this market.) You tell me: Who is harmed more?

The quarterfinals prelims broadcast this year is titled "Big, Live and Loud 8," so I concluded that the lineup was the G8 all over again. If it is the case that everybody gets face time on the broadcast, then I will happily stand corrected. If not, then I guess I'll have to hit up the Fan Network for my Scouts fix.

Know what? The feds sued Microsoft for not dissimilar behavior.