kevingamin Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Why aren't they encouraged to attend DCA then? Kidsgrove Scouts from the United Kingdom came to the United States last year and performed in DCA for the last two weeks of the season, including Championships, where they placed 6th and broke 90. Kidsgrove went back home and won both the UK and European drum corps championships. Kidsgrove will be coming back in 2012. Yokohama Inspires have also performed at DCA, in 2002, placing 5th (and beating their host corps, the Hawthorne Caballeros) and in 2004, placing 8th, if I remember correctly. What's interesting about the Inspires is that the Japanese drum corps season started AFTER DCI/DCA, so they placed 5th at DCA IN THEIR FIRST COMPETITIVE PERFORMANCE. Essentially, some non North American corps prefer the DCI experience, while others go for the DCA experience. For the ones that do DCI, since they don't always fit the rules, the International Division was created. While they are judged on the same sheets as the other corps they face, their seeding will not affect the other corps. In short, if Jubal or Yokohama Scouts make Open Class Top 12, the corps in 13th (and 14th if both corps make it in) will also be in Finals, so there will still be 12 Open Class units at Finals on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Kidsgrove Scouts from the United Kingdom came to the United States last year and performed in DCA for the last two weeks of the season, including Championships, where they placed 6th and broke 90. Kidsgrove went back home and won both the UK and European drum corps championships. Kidsgrove will be coming back in 2012. Yokohama Inspires have also performed at DCA, in 2002, placing 5th (and beating their host corps, the Hawthorne Caballeros) and in 2004, placing 8th, if I remember correctly. What's interesting about the Inspires is that the Japanese drum corps season started AFTER DCI/DCA, so they placed 5th at DCA IN THEIR FIRST COMPETITIVE PERFORMANCE. Essentially, some non North American corps prefer the DCI experience, while others go for the DCA experience. For the ones that do DCI, since they don't always fit the rules, the International Division was created. While they are judged on the same sheets as the other corps they face, their seeding will not affect the other corps. In short, if Jubal or Yokohama Scouts make Open Class Top 12, the corps in 13th (and 14th if both corps make it in) will also be in Finals, so there will still be 12 Open Class units at Finals on Tuesday. Thanks Kevin, but this still doesn't answer the question of why not simply have these corps perform in exhibition, and or provide some brief insight to spectators at competitions as to how these non-North American corps are being judged? Overall, I suspect that it comes down to a matter of preference of the visiting corps (competition vs. exhibition). By the way, couldn't the same objectives noted above be achieved by having the non-North American corps compete in World Class? I suspect that because the World CLass corps get paid for their performances (Open Class does not), that that would create a dilemma... at least for the World Class corps being asked to share revenue with another World Class unit. I'm also not sure I agree (as someone has suggested) that a non-North American corps would have a "better" experience in DCI vs. DCA. To agree with that would also suggest a "better" experience in World Class vs. Open CLass, and I definitely don't agree that that's true. Okay, no more devil's advocate. Anyway, my central point is that all of this comes off as rather ambiguous for an "international circuit" with a self-proclaimed "Major League" stature. It seems there must be a better way to promote the international flavor of DCI as a competitive circuit. Currently, this competitive classification policy just seems like more of a "let's be nice to our visiting friends" approach to address self-esteem for all of the corps, rather than creating an opportunity for them (and the rest of the corps) to truly engage in the fundamental intent of why we have a competitive, supposedly international circuit in the first place. All of these corps are VERY good. I guess I'd just prefer to see them (and all corps) do their thing with no strings attached, straight up competition with everyone else. No harm, no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2B or not 2B Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Why would the "International" Corps NOT want to compete? In DCA the "International" Corps - DO - compete with everyone else. Seems the "Inspires" from Japan and the "Kidsgrove Scouts" from England did VERY WELL. Both Corps maing "Finals" in the "Larger" Open Division Every time they came. No "Special" things (or Divisions) had to be done for them. They are "Judged" no different than Any Other DCA Corps. Making the DCA "WORLD Championships" (I would think) really MORE meaningful, than some different "Division" or as some "Exhibition" Corps thing. I had an "E-mail" talk with some Dutch people as to why they do not also come to DCA. They said it had to do with when school was in session and things like that. As too Canada. DCA (like DCI and before that the "World Open" and all other Contests) has always had the Canadian Corps, in with all the US Corps. Edited August 7, 2011 by 2B or not 2B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Why would the "International" Corps NOT want to compete? Exactly. I would think that they certainly would like to compete, so why not create a legitimate way for them to compete equally with everyone else? My point about the Greendale, WI show was that they were relegated to this ambiguous "International Division," where they're really not competing against anyone at all. They "won" their division that night, but they were the only one's "competing" in that division. Putting them in a division by themselves seems like a shallow attempt to make it seem as though they're actually competing like everyone else. There must be a better way to give them (and I guess everyone else) what they/we all want, an actual competition absent special provisions. The irony of it all is that this is a Drum Corps INTERNATIONAL event. Weird. Edited August 7, 2011 by nemesiscorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naoki Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) BTW, I have no idea if Yokohama Scouts have any members over age 22 (they didn't appear to), but over the years I'd heard discussions/rumors (true of false) that corps like "Beatrix" had members over the "legal" age for DCI competition, and thought that that may be a reason for DCI creating an international division. Hello, This is Naoki Sato, and I marched both in the United States and Japan. Yokohama Scouts is an all-age drum & Bugle Corps. Therefore, they have a lot of overage members (since the Scouts was founded by alumni of an elementary school, most of them are from 13 to 18 years old though). Members in the corps have jobs, schools and stuff on weekdays, and basically rehearse and compete only on weekends. It's like pretty much the same idea as senior corps in the States. Edited August 7, 2011 by Naoki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hello, This is Naoki Sato, and I marched both in the United States and Japan. Yokohama Scouts is an all-age drum & Bugle Corps. Therefore, they have a lot of overage members (since the Scouts were founded by alumni of an elementary school, most of them are from 13 to 18 years old though). Members in the corps have jobs, schools and stuff on weekdays, and basically rehearse and compete only on weekends. It's like pretty much the same idea as senior corps in the States. Thanks Naoki! This helps to bring some factual information to the discussion. It seems that every marching unit that I've seen from Japan (either live or on video) is absolutely outstanding. The performance standards there seem to be quite high. It would be nice to find a way to incorporate all of these quality groups into a truly international circuit. I think it would certainly increase the quality (and awareness) of pageantry arts activities significantly, on a global scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naoki Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks Naoki! This helps to bring some factual information to the discussion. It seems that every marching unit that I've seen from Japan (either live or on video) is absolutely outstanding. The performance standards there seem to be quite high. It would be nice to find a way to incorporate all of these quality groups into a truly international circuit. I think it would certainly increase the quality (and awareness) of pageantry arts activities significantly, on a global scale. It's my pleasure sir! I've been feeling the same way for a long time: Why drum corps international have the international division though they call themselves "international". So...your topic is interesting to me! As you just said above, I also think that it would be great if DCI become a truly international circuit...like the Olympic Games. It's already talked in this topic, but I think one of the big issues that makes it hard is age-out system. Since DCI is a youth activity, I think they need and should keep the system. However, I don't think any countries that have drum corps activity have the same system as DCI. Therefore, in order to bring international competitors to DCI, I think we need to make a new system/rule. Edited August 8, 2011 by Naoki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 According to the Finals week schedule, which was sent in my weekly DCI e-mail, Jubal is scheduled to perform in exhibition on Friday evening before the Age Out ceremony. I have to assume that if they make the cut for the top 25 (or will it be 26 or 27, depending on them and Yokohama?) that means they will be performing twice on Friday. In another topic in the WC forum a few days ago, the same question basically came up as to why they are classified the way they are; one of the replies stated that they DEFINITELY have over age members marching and that is the reason. If that's the case, they should be informed up front, long before making their travel plans, that they cannot COMPETE in any DCI contests, although they most certainly will be welcome to perform in exhibition; if they wish to compete while they are visiting, they should contact DCA. Just MHO, of course. FWIW, I saw the Inspires on both of their previous visits (would absolutely LOVE to have them again, BTW) and Kidsgrove last year...they both gave some of the higher ranked DCA corps here a run for their money and they were very warmly welcomed by both the corps and the crowds. There is no reason why they shouldn't be scored on the same sheets and using the same criteria as all the other competing corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 According to the Finals week schedule, which was sent in my weekly DCI e-mail, Jubal is scheduled to perform in exhibition on Friday evening before the Age Out ceremony. I have to assume that if they make the cut for the top 25 (or will it be 26 or 27, depending on them and Yokohama?) that means they will be performing twice on Friday. I don't know the plans IF they make the Friday show. My only comparison would be 2002. Magic of Orlando was scheduled to do a pre-show exhibition on finals night. They went and messed that up by making finals. What that did was make the SCV Alumni corps exhibition get bumped up. As I said, I have no idea what DCI's plans are for this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 In another topic in the WC forum a few days ago, the same question basically came up as to why they are classified the way they are; one of the replies stated that they DEFINITELY have over age members marching and that is the reason. If that's the case, they should be informed up front, long before making their travel plans, that they cannot COMPETE in any DCI contests, although they most certainly will be welcome to perform in exhibition; if they wish to compete while they are visiting, they should contact DCA. Just MHO, of course. The DCA argument is what I was referring to in my earlier post on this thread. Just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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