mvbailey12 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) This is not the same topic that I started a while back...just to make that clear... Thank you Pioneer for being able to field a corps for 50 years and giving so much to so many students! Although your philosophy may not be that of other corps or fans, thank you for what you do! Yes, I am gonna be the first to ask, even though the prelims aren't even done. ( And please do not turn this into a personality bashing thread - AGAIN! ) I am just a former member, who loves the corps and am curious about a few things. I have some questions: since it looks like Pioneer is out of Semi-Finals, does DCI make them drop a class? I thought that someone had mentioned that in the old topic, that there could be something like this with some new rule changes. I could be way wrong and probably am. OR can they forge ahead and just continue to be an Open Class? Plus, I really hate to say this, but, since they didn't even get to semi's, do you think logically that this might hurt their chances for recruitment? I know that they are working on alumni relations, publicity, recruitment and the such, and I am in no way trying to be disrespectful at all as I love Pio (I marched there and want my son to march there someday), but could this be a deterrent to future prospects? I hope not, because, to me, Pioneer is so much more that first or last. BUT, we do know that is why DCI does scoring and it not all exhibition. Opinions? Comments? Edited August 11, 2011 by mvbailey12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This is not the same topic that I started a while back...just to make that clear... Thank you Pioneer for being able to field a corps for 50 years and giving so much to so many students! Although your philosophy may not be that of other corps or fans, thank you for what you do! Yes, I am gonna be the first to ask, even though the prelims aren't even done. ( And please do not turn this into a personality bashing thread - AGAIN! ) I am just a former member, who loves the corps and am curious about a few things. I have some questions: since it looks like Pioneer is out of Semi-Finals, does DCI make them drop a class? I thought that someone had mentioned that in the old topic, that there could be something like this with some new rule changes. I could be way wrong and probably am. OR can they forge ahead and just continue to be an Open Class? Plus, I really hate to say this, but, since they didn't even get to semi's, do you think logically that this might hurt their chances for recruitment? I know that they are working on alumni relations, publicity, recruitment and the such, and I am in no way trying to be disrespectful at all as I love Pio (I marched there and want my son to march there someday), but could this be a deterrent to future prospects? I hope not, because, to me, Pioneer is so much more that first or last. BUT, we do know that is why DCI does scoring and it not all exhibition. Opinions? Comments? Wow. The whole open letter concept here, huh? Probably should send this direct to the Pioneer offices instead of here on DCP. That would be my thoughts at the moment. As far as the crux of what you say...rules got changed after the whole Tragic of Orlando fiasco. Evidently, someone's (think former MoO director) payment methods didn't add much to the immediate bottom line. Anyway, corps entering world class are much more heavily scrutinzed before they are offered a position. As far as current WC corps...there is nothing currently I know of that is an automatic "downgrade" process except if you go inactive for more than a couple years or so...then I think you have to go back through the scrutiny process but there doesn't have to be an automatic return to OC before you can move up like you used to have to do...again the MoO deal. So, when you look at it, Pioneer was beaten by only two corps who would ever stand a chance of going to WC. Plus, it wasn't all that long ago that either of these corps was not fielding and one was in a court battle and in bankruptcy. So, performance on the field is not always the best indicator of fiscal health. I have not heard differently, so I would assume this year was like always for Pioneer and that they remain in the black. The biggest concern I would have for them is recruiting. If you can't recruit significantly better for a 50th anniversary season, it does beg the question what the late fall turnout will be for a 51st season. But, that begins and ends my speculation part. As for now, they are a WC drum corps having earned that distinction quite a while ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Well, if this summer wasn't rock bottom for Pioneer, I'd hate to see what is. Too much hype and excuses (as always). Lots to examine this off season for Roman. Hopefully he'll finally come to his senses and see the reality of his organization's situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PioneerLeadSop Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The Board of Directors continue to ignore the 800 pound elephant in the room. Pioneer needs a change at the top. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Next step? Equipment check in, a corps meeting - perhaps an anniversery celebration or discussion about going back to see other corps? As for competition...I haven't seen these 4 corps. Is it that Pioneer is unusually bad this year, or were those three open class corps just that good this year? Not to beat up on Pioneer, they're nice people, but they have a history of struggling. I'm not 'in the know' so I really don't know what their specific problems are (as a vet you probably have better insight). That said, the same was true for the Troopers not that long ago and look at them now - fighting for that 12th spot. This season is over, time to celebrate the time they have left together and enjoy the remainder of the season. There is hope, but not without a lot of hard work. Edited August 11, 2011 by raphael18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acecannon Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Pioneer is a very good corps. They weren't bettered by lightweights. Drum corps is drum corps, regardless of division. However, it takes a different metal -- mental, fiscal, and physical -- to shoulder the demands of a full tour. Ten days kicking around in two or three mid-western states isn't the grueling coast to coast, weeks on end, trek that a world corps must endure. On the other hand, the show is the show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Pioneer is a very good corps. They weren't bettered by lightweights. Drum corps is drum corps, regardless of division. However, it takes a different metal -- mental, fiscal, and physical -- to shoulder the demands of a full tour. Ten days kicking around in two or three mid-western states isn't the grueling coast to coast, weeks on end, trek that a world corps must endure. On the other hand, the show is the show. You said some stuff which I was confused by after you said "very good corps." I was shocked by your assessment. Very good is a subjective measurement. I would say next to Blue Saints,etc. Pioneer is a very good corps. Compared to Colts...I would say "heh." The question is...what does Pioneer want to be? What do they want? Not what we want. What they want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxBigfoot Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I would suggest that the corps should look to the future and change their status to a Open Class corps. More comeptitive and more fun for the kids. if they can start getting the numbers they need then stay in world class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvbailey12 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Tom - Thanks for you post. That all makes sense to me. I was really just kind of curious. I didn't think that there was an automatic downgrade, but I thought that someone had posted it. But, like I said, I knew that probably was wrong about that. I just hope that the members can take some great, positive moments/memories away from this year. Keep forging ahead Pio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I would be afriad that going Open Class (while smart from a competitive stand point) would probably hurt their recruitment. Unless things have changed, one of the main draws for Pioneer members is the ability to say, "I march in a div 1 corps." They go to the major shows, and get much of the div 1 experience. For some people, that may be enough...until they get some experience and go to one of the very good nearby div 1 corps. If the corps went Open Class, they would probably have a good shot at being a regular in the top 4, but it would probably make it even harder to fill out their ranks. I don't think giving up their World Class status (and having to qualify for it again later) is really a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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