cowtown Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I’m not a Key defender, liked some of his shows others not at all but he didn’t have much to work with this year. The fatal flaw was the source music yeah, I saw the youtube of that piano guy playing Devils Staircase…it would have been a fine drum solo but an entire show w/ an 80 person hornline? Who picked that? Sometimes the best caption heads don’t have the best design, big picture ideas or don’t work well with other design staff so be careful what you wish for or you may have other problems on down the road And for those that claim this is an intellectual show – I want to have that debate but not here 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbass4 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yet if someone asked you to play in the orchestra for a summer musical, you'd likely be interested? Mike My point exactly (the point that was attacked by SCV_Chuck). Philharmonic orchestras, or any musical group that performs on the stage - it's an activity where competition (that is...COMPETITION BETWEEN MUSICAL GROUPS THAT ARE JUDGED ON A POINT SYSTEM THAT LEADS TO AN ULTIMATE WINNER) does not exist. The performers participate because they love music and love to perform, they get paid to do it, people pay to watch them perform, and they even travel the world performing (exhibitions, if you will). So here's the question - - IS THE DRUM CORPS ACTIVITY RELIANT ON THE COMPETITION ASPECT TO REMAIN ALIVE? And the question for you the reader - - IF IT WERE AN ACTIVITY LIKE OTHER "EXHIBITION GROUPS", WOULD YOU ENJOY IT AS MUCH? Would one sit at the most amazingly performed drum corps show going "This is boring...there's no one here to compete against them!"? Maybe a more interesting question would be that if Drum Corps were to become so popular with the world that it became an activity that made profit, and performers were paid like professional musicians in the working world - would COMPETITION STILL BE NECESSARY? I apologize if I'm getting off topic on the subject of this thread - but it's obviously evolved into other issues. And again - - DISCLAIMER: I'm not taking sides. I think the educational aspect and competitive aspect of the activity are both important. And...um...VANGUARD! (to keep with the thread) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POSITIVenrgy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I’m not a Key defender, liked some of his shows others not at all but he didn’t have much to work with this year. The fatal flaw was the source music yeah, I saw the youtube of that piano guy playing Devils Staircase…it would have been a fine drum solo but an entire show w/ an 80 person hornline? Who picked that? Sometimes the best caption heads don’t have the best design, big picture ideas or don’t work well with other design staff so be careful what you wish for or you may have other problems on down the road And for those that claim this is an intellectual show – I want to have that debate but not here I have to respectfully disagree with SCV's source music being a "fatal flaw", when their show finished 6th place in (what is considered to be) one of the most competitive and outstanding years in recent DCI history. The entire show was NOT an 80 person hornline playing The Devil's Staircase, although honestly, THAT was the piece of music I loved the most. Well, that and the ballad! Believe it or not, some/many people actually have a very emotional and visceral response to this music. I loved the music, but I think the show design also pulled me into the overall experience. IMHO it was one of the best designs this year..... I would have ranked this show a couple of spots higher. Really. But, who am I? Just a fan. Only one corps/show can win each year. Only 3 shows will medal. That leaves an awful lot of shows that I wouldn't consider "fatally flawed", or failures. I start out the season feeling very passionate and competitive for my favorite corps, but at a certain point, I think you have to just sit back (in awe), and enjoy the show for itself.... as it evolves and progresses towards perfection, (or as near to perfection as it will be). The Devil's Staircase wasn't perfect.... but, wow. Just WOW. I am still in awe of what the Vanguard put on the field! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I know I might be a little late to the discussion but I have heard a lot of wrong assumptions about the brass at SCV. And I'm sorry if this is redundant as I did not make it through the whole thread. This was the 1st year of current caption-head Dave Clement (sp?). And this is response to the brass has been bad for awhile. In 2009 under Andre Feagin, they came in 3rd in brass and were quite good. OK, so here you go with the brass staff and arranger history post Gail Royer to the best of my knowledge. Really not sure about 1993 94 and 95....staff was some Blue Devil brass alumni and I am not sure of the arranger 96-2002.....brass caption head was Dean Westman......the arranger was Gordon Henderson from 96-99 and switched to Dean from 2000-2002 2003............ I think was Bill Watson...regardless, it was a lot of the same staff that had worked with Dean and Gordon. Not sure of arranger but might have been Key's first year 04....brass caption head...Gino Cipriani, Key Poulan arranger from this point to the present 05....caption head...Gordon Henderson 06, 07....caption head...Nick Williams 08....caption head....Bob Chreste 09, 10.....caption head.....Andre Feagin 11......Dave Clement So, they have had a lot of different caption heads and approaches over the last 10 years. Since 2003 they have had 7 different brass caption heads and 7 different approaches. I know that the organization does not want this and really wants to find someone that can stick around. We'll see if they stick with their current caption head. In my opinion, the problem is probably more the "revolving door" than the quality of instruction. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Salvatore Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 SCV has been able to generate power with dissonant music in the past (see 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, etc...) ... A lot of people keep talking about 2004, but in the context of the 90s and 2000s, that was a very unusual show for SCV to do (much like 2009), not the kind of show that you usually get or expect from them. When I think of their style, I think of more of an avant guarde approach to drum corps, shows like 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010. Those types of shows seem to be their niche in the activity, and I for one don't want that to go away. I think Fiedler and the former Cavaliers staff members are going to have to continue to work hard in order to blend their philosophies with SCV's identity. I hear what you are saying; but, in the first two decades of DCI they did not use an avant guarde approach to drum corps programming and at one point, culminating with my age out year of 1989, they were in the top 3 17 out of 18 years and won 5 championships. During that time we had innovation but not what I'd consider avant guarde. Notable (for me anyway were): Procession of the Nobles Fiddler on the Roof (various selections including the Bottle Dance) Fanfare and Allegro A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra Send in the Clowns (from A Little Night Music) Don't Cry For Me Argentina (from Evita) Capriccio Espagnol On the Town Dream Sequence (from The Red Pony) Tender Land Pictures at an Exhibition Russian Christmas Music Phantom of the Opera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Salvatore Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Sorry Fsubone, but you are wrong about GR. Gail was all about being the best. He hated to lose and had no problem sacking his entire staff if he felt they weren’t living up to his expectations (WINNING). Certainly Gail wanted to expose the DC audience to more sophisticated music than the typical beat & blow that was predominant in the 60s. He also realized that part of winning was capturing the audience with melodic and emotional music. He would never endorse HIS corps doing “cerebral, avant-garde shows, shows that make you think, and actually work”. Gail’s shows would make you smile, cry and stand on your feet screaming with excitement, but never work. Jim, Scott and Jerry were great directors, but they were more administrators. For many years Gail was the brass caption head and show coordinator. I believe Gail would be very disappointed in what has happened to HIS corps, with one exception, the members. He would be proud of the fact that the members still value and hold high the Vanguard’s tradition of class, hard work and commitment. Really well put oldskl3rings. The cerebral (IMO) started after GR - Star 93 seemed to plant seeds (GR passed in late 1992 or early 1993). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Really well put oldskl3rings. The cerebral (IMO) started after GR - Star 93 seemed to plant seeds (GR passed in late 1992 or early 1993). Gail Royer passed on June 17th, 1993. Ha-Makom y'nachem et'chem b'toch sha'ar aveilei Tzion v'Yerushalayim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBD Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 And what should the SCV administration do to remedy the situation, Bud? - Fire the staff? Fire the kids? If it were only that simple. I once heard a fellow band director issue an ultimatum to his kids at a rehearsal. "This better be loud" he said to them, in a threatening tone of voice. I thought to myself: "this better be loud" - or what? Peace, good luck to SCV - a long time favorite of mine. Fred O. always the voice of reason Fred! Jaybo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvjesse Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I once heard a fellow band director issue an ultimatum to his kids at a rehearsal. "This better be loud" he said to them, in a threatening tone of voice. I thought to myself: "this better be loud" - or what? I'm curious. You claim to be at the rehearsal, and heard this band director say that... so you must know what the "or what" was. What was it? This is assuming, of course, that they weren't loud, and he was displeased with the result. If it WAS loud, then he clearly knew what buttons to push to get his desired result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badoo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm curious. You claim to be at the rehearsal, and heard this band director say that... so you must know what the "or what" was. What was it? This is assuming, of course, that they weren't loud, and he was displeased with the result. If it WAS loud, then he clearly knew what buttons to push to get his desired result. Seems like a dumb way to get someone to play loud, like that even matters anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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