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Blue Stars vs. Boston for 2012 TOC Spot...


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What was so innovative and grounding breaking about the TOC events?...They had already done them in 2004.

Not sure where you found "innovative and ground breaking" in my post...blink.gif

With the exception of the name, I don't think TOC '04 really shared much in common with TOC '11.

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No, it's not really dead. You don't come out with something like that and have it magically forgotten overnight once it's been defeated.

Yeah, the TOC is a good idea. That was all most of the G7 corps really wanted. Had they just said, "We'd like some more Murfreesboros, please" there would have been a little grumbling but no major controversy. Everything would have been hunky-dory. Instead they said, "Hey George . . . you like doing this sort of thing, right? Why don't you talk for us?" And George, who will sometimes get a bit carried away, exceeded his mandate just a bit.

The result is that the atmosphere has been completely poisoned. For years. Not here on DCP . . . who cares about that. I'm talking about within DCI, where the reaction to the G7 proposal was far more intense and where bitterness will endure far longer than it will on this forum. And that's bad, bad, bad for the activity.

I don't find anything in your post I disagree with excepting perhaps "it's not really dead". Forgotten ? No. Dead (as in not likely come back to life) ? Yes.

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I find it quite ironic that the classification "Tour of Champions" itself was supposed to assist in marketing...yet it has created all these conflicting opinions and/or the need for the subtext.

No, it really hasn't, except for those here who like to parse out every tiny thing DCI does ad nauseum.

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The funny thing is -- they were *right* about the TOC show format. People like it. It's much more accessible and entertaining to the casual fan. It's exciting for the hard-core fan to get a power-show. It's pretty much a win-win (pending some traumatic financial impact that hasn't leaked out).

Did many people doubt the TOC shows would be successful? One of the major critiques of the concept was that they would be drawing audience and revenue away from competing shows -- and it's important to recognize that shows don't just compete on the same night, they compete in the region across the summer. Lots of fans only go to a show or two. If there were two or three choices nearby spread out throughout the summer, and one of the shows was a TOC show, they would probably choose the TOC show. There is a huge benefit to smaller corps in terms of awareness and building a fan base in participating in a show with two or three of the top 6-8 corps.

The payout mechanism is easy to overlook, too, but these corps were getting at least the equivalent of a double payout from TOC shows, and probably more.

Back to the point about the G7 proposal's goals and how much has been accomplished this year. The main points of the proposal were:

1. There are too many corps.

2. The top corps should get more cash.

3. The top corps should have more control.

4. Division lines should be redrawn (top 7, next 10, next 8).

5. Corps below the current top OC corps should not receive support from DCI.

6. Performances should be more interesting.

7. There should be special shows with just the top corps.

8. Corps should run the shows, and local sponsors should be pushed out.

9. DCI has too many staff.

So, #2 and #7 are done with the TOC, which is also functioning as a stepping stone to #4 and #8, and a test run for #6. Open Class corps also mixed far less with WC corps than in past years, a step towards #5.

There was major pushback on #3, but if the TOC gets cemented as a normal part of the tour and expands to the 10-14 shows envisioned in the proposal, then the AAA division is de facto in place. Then if OC and bottom-run WC corps start to flame out along with smaller shows that can no longer get top tier corps on the bill, well, that will address #1, and #8 too, and make #3 more likely.

To me, it looks like the changes in OC touring along with the TOC shows made a huge step towards fulfilling this plan, not a massive rejection. The only point of having extra voting control would be to get control over the tour and rules and the cash flow. Well, they managed to address the tour and cash flow without even being on the board...

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. The only point of having extra voting control would be to get control over the tour and rules and the cash flow. Well, they managed to address the tour and cash flow without even being on the board...

The TOC could not have gotten off the ground unless the new Executive Board of Directors of DCI put it to a vote, and the DCI membership approved it by allowing a 1 year experimentaion of the TOC concept. DCI membership threw the G7 a bone here, and they took it. The many other G7 provision proposals ,( including G7 demand to oust the current Executive Director of DCI), as well as others not listed here, got rejected and never got out of committee for a vote. The notion that the G7 won what the wanted is a stretch. DCI won. As they got a new BOD and an increase in the visibility of Open Class Corps at Finals this year, as well as a higher attendance reported for Finals Week over last year. DCI " won " this, as the G7 is no more, and most of their plotters were booted off the Executive Board, and 90% of their proposal summarily rejected by DCI Board of Directors and DCI Membership.

Edited by BRASSO
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This would not have been an issue had the Blue Stars stayed away from the Jupiter horns. Just as it seems corps get more successful competitively, the horns seem to drive it away if not the first, than within some small amount of years. Phantom Regiment were the world champions just a few short years ago, until the horn switched caused them to drop significantly. As the brassEXPERT, I know all too well that the jupiter horns are sub-par, especially when trying to compete with system blue and the yamaha crew.

No need to argue.

I

Am

theEXPERT

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This would not have been an issue had the Blue Stars stayed away from the Jupiter horns. Just as it seems corps get more successful competitively, the horns seem to drive it away if not the first, than within some small amount of years.

There is one small problem with your logic....Boston also plays on Jupiter horns as well... :ph34r:

Phantom Regiment were the world champions just a few short years ago, until the horn switched caused them to drop significantly. As the brassEXPERT, I know all too well that the jupiter horns are sub-par, especially when trying to compete with system blue and the yamaha crew.

No need to argue.

I

Am

theEXPERT

Seriously?

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This would not have been an issue had the Blue Stars stayed away from the Jupiter horns. Just as it seems corps get more successful competitively, the horns seem to drive it away if not the first, than within some small amount of years. Phantom Regiment were the world champions just a few short years ago, until the horn switched caused them to drop significantly. As the brassEXPERT, I know all too well that the jupiter horns are sub-par, especially when trying to compete with system blue and the yamaha crew.

No need to argue.

I

Am

theEXPERT

OK, you're a self procalimed EXPERT, I admittedly am not. So educate me on what specifically makes Jupiter brass a sub par product as compared to System Blue or Yamaha. I am truly curious. As far as the product causuing a drop in poistion, I'm just not buying it. I don't believe using Jupiter brass triggers a deduction on the sheets that leads to dropping positions. I think a number of other things like, execution, show design, new members, performance level diminishing, percussion section and guard, would have more influence in a lower ranking than the brass instruments themselves. If you took the exact same winning corps perfoming the same show at the same perfomance level, you might have an apples to apples comparison where you could conclude the brass instrucments played a role in lowering the reuslt, IF that is what happened. But it isn't logical to think that the Jupiter brass alone was the cause of the drop in place.

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This would not have been an issue had the Blue Stars stayed away from the Jupiter horns. Just as it seems corps get more successful competitively, the horns seem to drive it away if not the first, than within some small amount of years. Phantom Regiment were the world champions just a few short years ago, until the horn switched caused them to drop significantly. As the brassEXPERT, I know all too well that the jupiter horns are sub-par, especially when trying to compete with system blue and the yamaha crew.

No need to argue.

I

Am

theEXPERT

You're right.. no need " to argue " with you that it was the Jupiter Horns that caused the Blue Stars to fall to 11th this year from 8th last year. That said, how did the use of horns have to do with ANY of the following ? :

2011 Finals placements/ 2010 Finals placements :

Ge Visual 12th / 8th

Vis. Perf 11th/ 8th

Vis. Ens. 12th/ 7th

Guard 10th/ 6th

Vis. Total 11th/ 6th

Percussion 10th/ 7th

I know, I know, facts can be such messy things. They can get in the way of a very good rant, and as far as rants go ( the Jupiter Horns causing the ' Stars to plummet in Guard, Percussion, Visual, etc this year), your rant was a very good one in my view. Besides, you've told us that you're the self proclamed expert, and just as you said theres " no need to argue with you " on this, as you are the "expert " on it.

Edited by BRASSO
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