N.E. Brigand Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) As I noted in the Boston thread, there's no logical reason for Stars rather than Boston to be asked to be in next year's TOC: - - - - - - - - - - Let us suppose that TOC eligibilty is based not on this year's ranking but on the average position of the past two years. Boston Crusaders -- (8+9)/2 = 8.5 Blue Stars -- (11+8)/2 = 9 Wait, wait, how about the average of the past three years? Boston Crusaders -- (8+9+7)/3 = 8 Blue Stars -- (11+8+8)/3 = 9 I know -- let's make it the average of the past four years! Boston Crusaders -- (8+9+7+10)/4 = 8.25 Blue Stars -- (11+8+8+8)/4 = 8.75 So unless the 2010 rankings are given some special privilege over other years, I think Boston will have to be offered Blue Stars' place in the TOC next year. Edited August 17, 2011 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Just from the whispers I've heard on the wind from the spring and summer, there is a chance we may be again looking at DCI-mageddon this fall, same as last. I'm guessing whatever TOC-type shows or lineups will be settled again as part of the overall deal. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) All of those questions are moot, because.... ....the 2011 TOC was a one-year experiment. DCI may decide to do it again in 2012.... or "annually"....or to do something different....or to scrap the whole concept. Perhaps you may be right that the questions may be moot...but I'm not too sure if we can say they are completely irrelevant just yet as I think it is still very much undecided more than anything else IMO... The 2011 TOC lineup was determined to be the top 8 from the previous season's finals. If this concept is retained for 2012, then it would include Boston rather than Blue Stars. This is what I want to believe to be true, but I've heard so many different opinions thrown around it was hard to believe anything along with whether it was a credible source or not. Logistics. With TOC shows and non-TOC shows separated by wide distances (i.e. Houston vs. Odessa), corps would not be able to establish travel itineraries and housing/practice sites more than a week in advance. It isn't impossible (Murfreesboro has operated this way in the past), but it is difficult, and it would ultimately limit the quantity and location of TOC events. I agree...this makes the most logical sense. More importantly, most of the TOC shows were hosted by TOC corps. If the TOC lineup changes day-to-day, it's possible that the host corps could be bumped out of the lineup for their own show. Imagine Boston committing to host a TOC event, only to get sent to Erie that day instead after finishing 9th in Atlanta. I don't think this is very relevant...as I know that both Crown and Cadets HOST shows that they don't always attend either. These two comments reflect my reaction after seeing the TOC show format. All a corps needs to do is provide an instant encore, learn one combined number for the event finale, and send their I&E people to the stadium before the event. Any world-class corps could do these things. If the TOC show format is deemed worthwhile, why shouldn't all the WC corps do it? I agree on point...but again I think the idea was for bragging rights as I mentioned previously in an earlier post. I may be wrong and off base completely, but it just appears that way to me at least at face value. Of course $$$ is always a good root cause as well. DCI makes money on the regional events. I think this is the TOP 8 corps response to a greater piece of the pie by having a TOC show draw a greater amount of income that would rival that of a DCI regional event where the lions share is made by DCI and not the member corps themselves. Edited August 17, 2011 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) The Boston Crusaders brought to their home show this year the Blue Devils and SCV. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that Boston will be heading out to the West Coast to these Corps 2 home shows next year as part of the 2 year deal that was agreed to before this season began. Somebody that is close to Boston can confirm this or tell me I've got it wrong or whatever. If true, it means Boston will be part of a mix of Corps going out early to the West Coast next season no matter what happens with the TOC showcase of 8 Corps. Edited August 17, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Do you think Boston will be offered a spot in the elite 8 for the 2012 Tour of Champions or will Blue Stars remain a member of the elite 8? It has been rumored that a corps does not neccessarily LOOSE their elite status by falling out of the Top 8. Is this truth? It has also been rumored that a few "out of the elite eight" years would be needed to advance. Is this truth? It has also been equally rumored or at least from what I've read over this season on DCP that the Tour of Champions is based solely upon the prior year competitive standing from the TOP 8 corps at finals. Is this the truth? Will there even be another Tour of Champions or was this just a one-season experiement? In my opinion Boston has earned their spot by placing 8th competitively and also their average placement is also a better record than Blue Stars counting both the 2010 and 2011 seasons combined when the TOC began. I honestly have no idea what the powers to be will decide in this matter for 2012, but I feel it should at least be offered to BAC at the very least. Your thoughts? My thoughts? You used the word rumor three times in your opening statement. Nuff said. Can you point to one single piece of evidence that Blue Stars would retain a TOC spot over Boston, IF they continue the TOC shows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Just from the whispers I've heard on the wind from the spring and summer, there is a chance we may be again looking at DCI-mageddon this fall, same as last. I'm guessing whatever TOC-type shows or lineups will be settled again as part of the overall deal. Yeah, I think it's important to keep in mind that the TOC was a compromise of sorts between DCI and the big name corps. From the original proposal: Premier Corps Drive the organization and require fiscal support at a higher level. Through hard work over long years, the premier corps are the centerpiece of DCI. And yet, these same corps do not receive the financial remuneration that would be expected for the work that has been done, and is done on a year to year basis. There must be a way to return more cash to the individual units. Corps are NOT the same. Those who drive sales through excellence and entertainment ability deserve to be rewarded. In fact, re-reading the proposal, I realize that quite a bit of the original G7 proposal has indeed come to pass, so I expect the folks who originally pushed it are still behind the idea. Edited August 17, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 As I noted in the Boston thread, there's no logical reason for Stars rather than Boston to be asked to be in next year's TOC: - - - - - - - - - - Let us suppose that TOC eligibilty is based not on this year's ranking but on the average position of the past two years. Boston Crusaders -- (8+9)/2 = 8.5 Blue Stars -- (11+8)/2 = 9 Wait, wait, how about the average of the past three years? Boston Crusaders -- (8+9+7)/3 = 8 Blue Stars -- (11+8+8)/3 = 9 I know -- let's make it the average of the past four years! Boston Crusaders -- (8+9+7+10)/4 = 8.25 Blue Stars -- (11+8+8+8)/4 = 8.75 So unless the 2010 rankings are given some special privilege over other years, I think Boston will have to be offered Blue Stars' place in the TOC next year. It was actually your post in the other thread that actually got me thinking about this topic. Because that thread dealt with what was your favorite part of Boston's show I really didn't want to ruin it with this TOC BC vs. BS discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 The Boston Crusaders brought to their home show this year the Blue Devils and SCV. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that Boston will be heading out to the West Coast to these Corps 2 home shows next year as part of the 2 year deal that was agreed to before this season began. Somebody that is close to Boston can confirm this or tell me I've got it wrong or whatever. If true, it means Boston will be part of a mix of Corps going out early to the West Coast next season no matter what happens with the TOC showcase of 8 Corps. Really?...Has Boston EVER toured on the West Coast? Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think they should add Madison because they are always a crowd favorite and a draw $$$ wise, and they actually ARE a previous champion.... but what do I know. Crown can stay in b/c they are hunting with the big dogs and they have 2 Jim Ott's and a D2 'ship and Bluecoats.... well they are good too even with no trophies to speak of...but they are definitely top tier. Just glad that G7 or whatever didn't pan out and we got the Tour of Champions instead. Great idea even if some of the shows/encores rained out. The TOC in it's current format features the previous years top 8. Unless that is changed, Boston deserves to be in, everyone else doesn't. TOC shows don't feature perceived crowd favorites, former victors of yesteryear, or winners of this award or that, they feature the previous seasons top 8. It's not the show people are having a problem with, it's the name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) My thoughts? You used the word rumor three times in your opening statement. Nuff said. Can you point to one single piece of evidence that Blue Stars would retain a TOC spot over Boston, IF they continue the TOC shows? Referencing the original G7/TOC proposal: A re-classification of corps: AAA [top 7/8], AA [8/9-17], and A [bottom WC and top OC] is important so that we define for our spectators, the level of expected performance. These corps can then be placed in well defined events that align like levels of excellence and competitive value. This reclassification will also play into governance, fiscal remuneration and overall control of the future. .... A corps placing in the top 8 [for three years] is to be installed as a AAA corps for the following season. This is retroactive to 2008. Permanent status UP or DOWN involves the consecutive years of activity. A Corps placing in the Top 17 for three consecutive years is to be installed as a AA corps for the following season. The same three year record will have a corps fall in class. So if they are following these rules, then Blue Stars would still be in, and Boston would not yet be in, I think. Edited August 17, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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