garfield Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 this wasnt my post it was jeffs,,,,maybe you want to add yourself and your year in Scouts and experience in these matters also. Brasso wants proof, names, connections, But cant give any himself. Always hear say,. well as I said this went way further than it had to BUT happens often when Brasso steals a thread with his nonsense. My fault for adding to it and keeping it going. Im very sorry to have contributed to the madness . especially to those who do not have to prove themselves to anyone. If they want they can defend themselves now, Not that they will. im sure they are better men than me and will just laugh and walk away to the real world. I cant believe i contributed and allowed 5 pages to go on like this, what nonsense . I should be voted off the island. some of us know better Actually Im voting myself off. I;'ll be in touch with a few if ya. CIAO Most of you have watched me go down that rabbit hole on more than one occasion. It starts out fun and full of banter but can quickly degenerate into, well, this. Something tells me that, if you both don't get banned for personal insults, you'll be back at it again on some other subject. Such is the nature of passion for the activity. You guys might want to stop and start instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) . Brasso wants proof, names, connections, But cant give any himself. O I did. I said above that DCI reported their Finals Night Paid Attendance for 1981 in Montreal. I even provided that Paid Attendance figure that came from DCI too.. But you apparently chose to ignore it. You were too busy perhaps in creating your next false narrative and / or thinking of which personal attack you might want to post next on this thread. Edited August 17, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Most of you have watched me go down that rabbit hole on more than one occasion. It starts out fun and full of banter but can quickly degenerate into, well, this. Something tells me that, if you both don't get banned for personal insults, you'll be back at it again on some other subject. Such is the nature of passion for the activity. Lets be clear, I have NOT engaged in personal insults on this thread with Guardling. So lets get that part correct too. It was HE that initiated that vileness and called me a " hot mess ". I merely stated in reply that this was a stupid thing to say to me. Look, if somebody came on here today and posted that DCI exaggerated the Finals Nite Attendance a few weeks ago in Indy, and their source for this was an anonymous, unnamed source they know at the Indy stadium, what would the typical reaction be ? Lets get real here, ok ?. We know what the typical reaction would be. We'd laugh at that silliness... or ask for more substantive evidence to prove the claim. Well guess what ? Those of us that were in attendance at Finals Night in another year, in another stadium, are likewise laughing at THAT silly claim that DCI exagerrated the Paid Attendance figures for that evening in THAT stadium. From there however, we have seemingly drifted with one or two posters here into the ad hominen personal attacks. But we know ( or should ) on why they had to resort to that. Its because their ridiculous claims, with silly unnamed, anonymous sources, claims the numbers cited by fans are not " legit ", etc and all that silly biz fell completely apart for them, when it ran up against DCI's own published Finals Night Paid Attendance figures for the night. Edited August 17, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Lets be clear, I have NOT engaged in personal insults on this thread with Guardling. So lets get that part correct too. It was HE that said above that I am a " hot mess ". I merely stated in reply that this was a stupid thing to say to me. Look, if somebody came on here today and posted that DCI exaggerated the Finals Nite Attendance a few weeks ago in Indy, and their source for this was an anonymous, unnamed source they know at the Indy stadium, what would the typical reaction be ? Lets get real here, ok ?. We know what the typical reaction would be. We'd laugh at that silliness... or ask for more substantive evidence to prove the claim. Well guess what ? Those of us that were in attendance at Finals Night in another year, in another stadium, are likewise laughing at THAT silly claim that DCI exagerrated the Paid Attendance figures for that evening in THAT stadium. From there however, we have seemingly drifted with one or two posters here into the ad hominen personal attacks. But we know ( or should ) on why they had to resort to that. Its because their ridiculous claims, with silly unnamed, anonymous sources, etc and all that silly biz fell completely apart for them, when it ran up against DCI's own published Finals Night Paid Attendance figures for the night. Glad you edited out the "moron" part - that could have been tough to justify in this post. But, you are right. There's a lot of silliness here at the moment. How's about we get back to the wonderful attendance this year? Here are my questions: Can anyone here point to definitive actions taken on the part of DCI that can be directly attributed to the increased attendance? Can anyone point to definitive actions taken by the member corps that could have increased attendance this year? Instead of just making generalizations, is there something we can point to as definitive actions to increase attendance? Is it DCI, is it the corps? A mix of the two? Or was it just general increases in environmental factors (economy, gas prices, etc) that mostly account for the jump in attendance? Edited August 17, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Here are my questions: Can anyone here point to definitive actions taken on the part of DCI that could have attributed to the increased attendance? Can anyone point to definitive actions taken by the member corps that could have increased attendance this year? Perhaps the timing was just coincidental, but Cesario requested the Corps be a bit more fan engaging with their shows a couple of years back. ( DCI was losing fans at the time, and thats never a good busness model for success ) The DCI judging sheets were tweaked a bit with verbiage to add substance to that request of his ( example.. added the words " how compelling is the show to audiences " ?). Shows do seem to have more melody with the brass arrangements with more of the Corps than a few years back,in my assessment. Could the fact that attendance is a bit up the last few years be a result of the fans finding the shows a bit more entertaining, ie " compelling " of late ? I'll let others here decide for themselves on that. But I would say " yes ", on the whole, the shows are a bit more engaging for audiences than a few years ago... and perhaps that is accounting in some measure for the encouraging uptick in attendance of late. Edited August 17, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Is garfield reading this thread? If he is: do DCI's 990s list either their total paid number of attendees, or those for Finals? Nope, neither that I have ever seen. Thanks for confirming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf144 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Perhaps the timing was just coincidental, but Cesario requested the Corps be a bit more fan engaging with their shows a couple of years back. ( DCI was losing fans at the time, and thats never a good busness model for success ) The DCI judging sheets were tweaked a bit with verbiage to add substance to that request of his ( example.. added the words " how compelling is the show to audiences " ?). Shows do seem to have more melody with the brass arrangements with more of the Corps than a few years back,in my assessment. Could the fact that attendance is a bit up the last few years be a result of the fans finding the shows a bit more entertaining, ie " compelling " ? I'll let others here decide for themsrelves on that. But I would say " yes ", on the whole, the shows are a bit more engaging for audiences than a few years ago... and perhaps that is accounting in some ways for the encouraging uptick in attendance of late. That. I have to admit that I was beginning to lose interest several years ago and questioning why I was paying thousands of dollars every year (Friends of DCI, hotel, plane fare etc) when I was finding the majority of the shows very boring and unengaging. Well performed - yes, but dull and not entertaining. I think it is a huge part of why my now 22 year old who was going to DCI shows since he was 6 had zero interest in marching when he was old enough - he sat through the shows with dad and was thoroughly bored. Happily the pendulum has swung back the other way and the past few years I have found the vast majority of the shows top to bottom to be extremely entertaining with only a small handful being "meh". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thats right. We have 2 choices here. Believe DCP poster Jeff Ream who tells us he has ( or had ) an anonymous, unnamed source at Montreal Expos Stadium that says DCI's published paid attendance figures were exaggerated ( not " 100%" ) at that stadium...... or alternatively, believe DCI Executive Director Don Pesceone, ( not unnamed ) in 1981, 1982 that signed off on the Finals Nite Paid Attendance figures for 1981, 1982 ( and did so for 21 years in his position). The DCI official Paid Attendance Figures go to the IRS for its legal requirement. Unnamed, anonymous sources are under no such requirement to do a thing. Neither does any DCP poster on here need to do a thing but tell us what their unnamed, anonymous source told them. I was there in Montreal in 1981 and in 1982. I saw Don and Mary there. I saw the crowd there. I know the IRS requirement in respect to providing accurate paid receipt numbers. I don't know Jeff and his alleged unnamed, anonymous source(s) at this Montreal Stadium from a hole in the wall. So this notion that DCI exaggerated the Finals Nite Paid Attendance numbers in Montreal is not only BS to me, its an affront to the integrity of a man that is no longer here to defend himself from such a scurrilous charge of exaggerating the numbers for some as of yet, unexplained reason. I do laugh at this silliness of the bogus claim of exaggerated attendance numbers BITD, but there is a serious angle to this, lest we forget. The man who signed off on these legally binding Finals Night Paid Attendance figures each of these 21 years from the inception of DCI in the early 70's thru to the 90's, passed away just a few months ago. The timing of this by DCP'er Jeff Ream is also most regrettable, imo. Not getting into the specifics of any year in particular, but what is put out as part of marketing and PR and what is legally reported to the government may or may not be excactly the same numbers. I just like that this year's attendance is the 3rd largest in the past 20 years, behind 2007 Pasadena and 2006 Madison. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Not getting into the specifics of any year in particular, but what is put out as part of marketing and PR and what is legally reported to the government may or may not be excactly the same numbers. The Liability Insurance policies that DCI has with their Insurance Co. would ask them( among other things ) what their Attendance for the previous year(s) Championships was. Obviously, the more people, the higher the risk, so those numbers are important for Companies to underwrite their risk, and set the pricing accordingly. Failure to represent those numbers honestly is misrepresentation. And misrepresentation is an exclusion that would legally permit an Insurance Company to effectively deny a future claim under that insurance policy.. Thats just ONE MORE reason to dismiss out of hand this silly notion that DCI now, or has ever before, given one set of attendance figures for PR and marketing, but an entirely different one for the legal authorities. Its laughably ridiculous the lengths a few posters will go to here to try and spin that DCI might have 2 ( or more ) attendance figures.. one for " PR " for the fans, but another one for their Accountants, Lawyers, Financial Advisors. Please stop with this nonsense, ok, MikeD ?. I can only handle so much laughter with the silliness, and I've filled my laughter quotient for the month already yesterday with this nonsensical silliness being posted here re. attendance figures from DCI. Edited August 17, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Even the liability insurance policies that DCI has with their insurance co. would ask them what their paid attendance for the previous year(s) was. Obviously, the most people, the higher the risk, so those numbers are important. Agreed. While the IRS, as far as I can tell, would not request or receive attendance numbers, DCI's insurance company almost certainly would. (That insurance company, however, probably would not publicly dispute what DCI said in a press release, if it differed from what the insurance company was told. I'm not saying this happened, just that we'd have no way of knowing if it did.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.