JD Shaw steps down as Phantom Regiment brass arranger?


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I know, but that's the inherent problem. People have gotten much softer. Just 100 years ago, the average life-span was around 50, and infant mortality rates were 60%.... Think about that. Life was much harder, but so were the people. I just think it's a bit of an over-reaction to claim un-professionalism for staff members to yell at consenting adults when they're not doing what is expected. It's a competitive activity, you need everyone to be on their game all of the time, and always at their peak. If some kid isn't getting it, and is dragging the corps down, then it's prefect for the staff to yell at both them and the other members, to get everyone to be their best. Blowing sunshine up their butts will mean nothing if the staff spends all day saying, "That was perfect!" then the judges trash you that night.

You're running on the assumption that every single one of the members is 100% psychologically sound, does not have a history of violence, will understand your line of reasoning, will not take personal offense, will use it for personal improvement, will not have gotten terrible news from their family/girlfriend the night before, etc, etc, etc...I could go on almost infinitely, but I won't.

Over the past several years, the intersection of education and psychology has taught us that the tiniest little statement can have drastic effects not only on the student's improvement, but their later well-being.

Furthermore, this is assuming that the teachers are 100% clear every single time so that there is no question of "what is expected." Spoiler alert: I've watched plenty of rehearsals in my time, and never once have I seen an instance of a teacher being perfect.

As if that weren't enough, this concept of "everyone...on their game all of the time, and always at their peak" is, in my mind, foolish. It's the old adage of "giving 110%," which is just ridiculous. The human mind is a powerful thing, but it (and the body) needs rest. There is no such thing as being "on it" in a rehearsal the entire time. If you think you've done it, your standards are too low.

Lastly, "blowing sunshine up their butts" isn't what I'm advocating. You can discuss and improve their mistakes in a professional and polite manner, and I'll say it again: The respect you show to your students will be repaid to you ten-fold.

I've been a student and teacher in both philosophies, and there is no doubt in my mind which works better.

Edited by Room_101
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Jim Wren steps down as Regiment Brass Arranger OMG, the end of Regiment is near!!!!!! Oh, sorry, J.D. Shaw steps down as Regiment.... Get a grip, Regiment will survive!

Please no. While I have liked some of his work for Boston, what he did to Les Mis this year was despicable IMO. As an extremely hard core Les Mis fan, I assure that his arrangements did very little

Now that most of us agree that it is in fact the visual staff who can be less than professional in and out of rehearsal... ...isn't it also interesting that visual is their comparative weak point? Pe

JD's arrangements have touched me like no other arranger ever has...ever.... It will be sad to no longer have that

You should probably tell someone about that.. Maybe inform your local authorities?

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Lastly, "blowing sunshine up their butts" isn't what I'm advocating. You can discuss and improve their mistakes in a professional and polite manner, and I'll say it again: The respect you show to your students will be repaid to you ten-fold.

I've been a student and teacher in both philosophies, and there is no doubt in my mind which works better.

I guess that the "nicer" philosophy works better for you then. I've been in programs with both style of teaching, and I quite enjoyed the "hard-core" method of teaching, where we were always running to our sets, water breaks were "gush-and-go", and the staff would yell if we were doing something wrong. But I wouldn't change it for anything. I had nothing but the utmost respect for my staff, and I knew they respected us as musicians and adults. But, I guess everyone works differently. I came into my program, knowing exactly what to expect. I don't think anyone comes to a DCI corps expecting milk and cookies at every meal, and story time before bed, (except BDC), they expect to be pushed harder than ever before, and go out and perform at the the highest pinnacle of the activity. It's just common sense.

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From personal experience yelling at kids does not get them to perform any better. The reason staff members yell is because they've run out of ways to get the material across so they instinctively yell to try to get the idea into the kid's head. If I ever had a staff member verbally abuse one of my students I would have him fired. There is no reason to yell at kids just because the teacher is getting frustrated, no matter how competitive this activity is, yelling doesn't get anyone anywhere. If anything, more mistakes occur as a result of yelling...just my "new school thought process" .02 cents.

Possibly, but I did march in a corps with an "old-school thought process". Yelling did get the message across, to us at least. At least for me, I respected my staff members so much, that I would never want to disappoint them by messing up and putting a sub-par product on the field, so if they yelled at us, I knew we had disappointed them. But we always put out better runs after having that fire lit underneath us. Just my .02

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You should probably tell someone about that.. Maybe inform your local authorities?

Haha! thumbup.gif

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Possibly, but I did march in a corps with an "old-school thought process". Yelling did get the message across, to us at least. At least for me, I respected my staff members so much, that I would never want to disappoint them by messing up and putting a sub-par product on the field, so if they yelled at us, I knew we had disappointed them. But we always put out better runs after having that fire lit underneath us. Just my .02

But think about respecting them that much while they STILL treated YOU with respect!

I have yet to be at a professional orchestra rehearsal where the conductor tells us to take a 30-second "gush and go." No conductor has ever asked me to do push-ups for cracking a note, for coming in late at an entrance, or for being out of tune with the first clarinet. Granted, these things don't happen very often (if I may say so...). But, these conductors know that sometimes, things just don't go right. No big deal. We'll get it next time.

Push-ups don't happen in Berlin. Not in Chicago. Not at Juilliard. Not at Eastman.

The moment a conductor commands me to do them, I'll do the same to my kids. The moment the conductor skips a (water) break in rehearsal because we're doing poorly, I'll do it to my kids.

Until that happens, I'll treat them like what they are: professionals.

Maybe it happened in Reiner's day, but not any longer. And boy, don't these orchestras today sound a lot less tired? Here's to you, Mr. Farkas!

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But think about respecting them that much while they STILL treated YOU with respect!

I have yet to be at a professional orchestra rehearsal where the conductor tells us to take a 30-second "gush and go." No conductor has ever asked me to do push-ups for cracking a note, for coming in late at an entrance, or for being out of tune with the first clarinet. Granted, these things don't happen very often (if I may say so...). But, these conductors know that sometimes, things just don't go right. No big deal. We'll get it next time.

Push-ups don't happen in Berlin. Not in Chicago. Not at Juilliard. Not at Eastman.

The moment a conductor commands me to do them, I'll do the same to my kids. The moment the conductor skips a (water) break in rehearsal because we're doing poorly, I'll do it to my kids.

Until that happens, I'll treat them like what they are: professionals.

Maybe it happened in Reiner's day, but not any longer. And boy, don't these orchestras today sound a lot less tired? Here's to you, Mr. Farkas!

Ok, this whole post is silly. You cannot compare drum corps and an orchestral setting. Drum corps musicians are not professional paid musicians. Most of pushups and such are for conditioning sake in the long run.

The conductor might not give you pushups in a rehearsal, but Michael Martin certainly handed them out. I think he has plenty of orchestral trumpet playing experience and he seemed to think it beneficial to us ;)

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You're running on the assumption that every single one of the members is 100% psychologically sound, does not have a history of violence, will understand your line of reasoning, will not take personal offense, will use it for personal improvement, will not have gotten terrible news from their family/girlfriend the night before, etc, etc, etc...I could go on almost infinitely, but I won't.

Yup. Having marched with people who experienced abusive situations at home, one thing I know for certain is that going into another abusive situation (even if it's a different kind of abuse) isn't the healthiest place to be. And especially for a young person, it can have a drastic effect on his/her emotional/psychological development.

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Most of pushups and such are for conditioning sake in the long run.

I've never really believed that, either. I was always given 10 push-ups whenever we made a mistake. By day two, those 10 push-ups took next to no effort, so for the remaining 89 days of the season, dropping to do 10 was just a total waste of time.

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I've never really believed that, either. I was always given 10 push-ups whenever we made a mistake. By day two, those 10 push-ups took next to no effort, so for the remaining 89 days of the season, dropping to do 10 was just a total waste of time.

dont make so many mistakes....problem solved :tongue:

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