Big Bad Bari Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Guess you would have been busting on Royer, Sanford, and Emmons after their combined efforts lead Vanguard to a 7th place finish in '80, eh? Vanguard's trying to do something a little different these days, and if the tradeoff for them doing Bartok, et al, is finishing 5th-7th rather than finishing 1st or 2nd with lesser material (like, ahem, a barely disguised re-arrangement of Puccini by Andrew Lloyd Webber), put me down as a fan. I am a BIG fan of the Corps Mo... In the past three seasons I have had people very close to me as well as my sons march SCV, I just am not in love with the current folks in charge. I felt horrible for SCV in 1980 as I was completely in Awe of THAT show... It didn't hurt that my roommate marched Trombonium that season and I got a real education as to what SCV was doing! I was in awe... I was crushed when the 7th place finish was announced however. Thrilled for my other friends in BD but crushed for SCV. I was frankly totally in awe by what happened in 1981 Mo... Here was a corps that had just been tanked hard by design that the world was not ready to see, what did they do? took it back to the old school and beat the pants of all of us. This is a testament to the desire and drive behind the man. He gave that same drive to his students and well look at what happened. Also you I am sure are privy to the inside story of the power struggle between Pet, Fred and Gayle in 1980 and that the placement had some to do with the internal struggles of the corps. Oh and where did Pete work the next season? I am not trying to cause a riff between the two of us here Mo... Rather I am trying to say that I am not happy with the current state of affairs... I'm quite happy with you! It isn't always about winning these days unlike it was in the past, but IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT GETTING BETTER! At least that is how I see it... I feel Jeff is missing something here, I imagine he cannot put his finger directly upon it just like me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I get the frustration, honest, I do. I guess my feeling is that I look at the movements the last couple years as being pieces of a puzzle being assembled, with each new piece being stronger than what came before. That being the case, I don't any reason not to be optimistic about the corps prospects going forward. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Can Jeff remove people from the board of directors, since, according to someone on this post, it is the board of directors that keep changing the brass staff? If not, there's not much he can do. One thing everyone needs to understand. The SCV BOD has NOTHING to do with the hiring and firing of the corps staff! That is the responsibility of the corps director. The BOD hires the director and then turns TOTAL control of the corps over to him or her. It is the job of the director to build a winning team. Once that team had been established, then keeping that team together and motivated becomes paramount (consistency). Since GR passed on the resigns of directorship the corps has had only one director who has been able to put together a winning team. Unfortunately the BOD had to let that director go as a business decision, not a corps performance issue. The current director was hired (imo) because of his ability to build a winning team. So far, he hasn’t been successful. It looks like he is still searching. How long the current BOD gives him to complete that task, is up to them. Guess you would have been busting on Royer, Sanford, and Emmons after their combined efforts lead Vanguard to a 7th place finish in '80, eh? Vanguard's trying to do something a little different these days, and if the tradeoff for them doing Bartok, et al, is finishing 5th-7th rather than finishing 1st or 2nd with lesser material (like, ahem, a barely disguised re-arrangement of Puccini by Andrew Lloyd Webber), put me down as a fan. Royer had very little to do with that year. Rumor at the time was Pete and Fred were trying to push GR out of the design element. It was also rumored that GR talked down the show to the judging community during the season. Notice that the following year Pete and Fred were gone and SCV won it all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylogan Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thank you, oldskl3rings, for clearing up the hiring situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Interesting take... So three years and three brass staffs would indicate what exactly? excellent culture and hiring practices? I think not sir... It is what I said isnt it... but in all frankness, here on DCP we try to be nice the first time we say something, it was a nice way to say that in three years Jeff has not changed the culture there one iota! and that he is not making headway... Me thinks he might be the wrong guy for the job because IMO the organization needs a MAJOR overhaul and until someone guts it, and changes the culture to one that is condusive to retention of staff and consistantly dynamic and awe inspring product. SCV will remain where they are without UPWARDLY MOBILE change. Sounds like you don't know where the real problem is.... and this has been discussed on both here and RAMD for over a decade and a half! It's the board of directors, silly! I mean, that's what's getting repeated over and over. Every other piece of the equation has been replaced in the past 20 years.... Sorry, but this whole thread sounds like a broken record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Fiedler won more DCI championships with Cavaliers than Royer did with Vanguard. Seems he has a pretty good idea of what it takes to win. You do have a point there! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shostahoosier Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Interesting take... So three years and three brass staffs would indicate what exactly? excellent culture and hiring practices? I think not sir... It could indicate a lot of things. The "interesting" part though is that this turnover didnt happen at the other corps that Jeff ran...you know...the corps that won 7 DCI titles while he was director. It is what I said isnt it... but in all frankness, here on DCP we try to be nice the first time we say something, it was a nice way to say that in three years Jeff has not changed the culture there one iota! and that he is not making headway... Me thinks he might be the wrong guy for the job because IMO the organization needs a MAJOR overhaul and until someone guts it, and changes the culture to one that is condusive to retention of staff and consistantly dynamic and awe inspring product. SCV will remain where they are without UPWARDLY MOBILE change. That corps placed 7th in 1997 (definitely not "firing on all cylinders"), then 4th, and then didnt finish below 3rd for 9 seasons while he was director. That is definitely "excellent culture and hiring practices". If we were talking about some green (no pun intended) director who hadnt accomplished much, then you might have a leg to stand on. I dont think you're wrong for being frustrated at your corps inconsistent nature for the past 20 years, but I definitely think your anger is directed at the wrong person/people. Maybe the "culture" of your organization that you want to change is rooted in something that even Jeff doesnt have the power to weed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 There is nothing wrong with the organization. The volunteer base is solid, the BOD is solid and finances are in good shape. The problem is not on the booster/business side, it’s on the corps side. I feel the problem lies with the program design staff. During Fielder’s tenure “Ballet for Martha” was pure SCV and with a little more cleaning and meat, it could have been a top three finisher. It was when the staff decided to go esoteric the problems began. I know that there are fans that enjoy that type of show, but truthfully those fans are in a minority. A decade ago the judges rewarded that type of programming, now they don’t. The truth is, if you want to win, you have to give the judges what they are looking for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 There is nothing wrong with the organization. The volunteer base is solid, the BOD is solid and finances are in good shape. The problem is not on the booster/business side, it’s on the corps side. I feel the problem lies with the program design staff. During Fielder’s tenure “Ballet for Martha” was pure SCV and with a little more cleaning and meat, it could have been a top three finisher. It was when the staff decided to go esoteric the problems began. I know that there are fans that enjoy that type of show, but truthfully those fans are in a minority. A decade ago the judges rewarded that type of programming, now they don’t. The truth is, if you want to win, you have to give the judges what they are looking for. I've rekindled my love of drum corps less than 5 years ago after a hiatus of 22 years. We went to finals in 2010. I did not blink when I watched drum corps live. I couldn't travel in 2011 and watched lots of Fan Network (btw the Denver footage was awesome :) and did not blink when I watched and listened to 2011 SCV numerous times. It's intricate, fast, dynamic. I liked it alot and will watch and listen again to find another innuendo. Very cool SCV! signed a fan of SCV since 73 :) Perhaps I'm esoteric and shouldn't go to a show 'cause ya don't want me there :( 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 i truly think the bloo approach will be a wonderful fit for scv. it's the perfect blend of aggressiveness and musicality, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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