Vanguard Brass Staff.

[Cadets98]

Being a drum guy I consider the hiring of Rennick and his staff a "Home Run" for SCV. What do you brass guys consider the hiring of Wozniak and Higgins to be? How good are they?

If Rennick is a home run, I would call this hire a triple. That's only because I have huge props for Rennick. A brass hire equivalent of a Rennick would be Wayne Downey or Donnie VanDoren and that's about it. All in all I think this is a excellent hire for the Vanguard and I expect great things in the upcoming years with their brass program.

[roosevelt]

The other problem I have was when you were talking about is how they brass changes might have a good effect on the corps. I understand you used the percussion as an example for positive changes, but that doesn't explain how the brass will get better. Consistency seems a much more favorable way.

This exchange need not be a win/loose issue; not everything is a competition. What I was attempting to point out was that your generalized statement about judges having no intellect, combined with you not caring at all about their backgrounds, did not bode well in supporting your position. There are certainly some incompetent people in all professions, but what you did was call all judges incompetent without any actual proof whatsoever by pointing to any specific judges and specific criteria.

No. QUALITY is the better way. Who cares if you have consistency if it is not quality. The best thing is when you have consistency AND quality. By their on field product this year, I would argue that the brass staff at SCV was not of high enough quality. I understand that is was their first year and all, but the last brass staff made it better their first year. These guys made it markedly worse.

[Stu]

No. QUALITY is the better way. Who cares if you have consistency if it is not quality. The best thing is when you have consistency AND quality. By their on field product this year, I would argue that the brass staff at SCV was not of high enough quality. I understand that is was their first year and all, but the last brass staff made it better their first year. These guys made it markedly worse.

I tend to agree with your position. However, the problem of "temporary" Quality is in the one-year push toward greatness, then the jumping ship effect by staff seeking instant gratification with an existing top corps which has became the norm in today's world of drum corps (especially within lower corps attempting to climb the competitive ranks). Quality without loyalty (from both the organization and the individual) is nothing more than selfishness; but when our culture teaches us that entitlement and instant gratification is acceptable, loyalty usually gets shoved overboard.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Stu

[corpsnewbie]

I tend to agree with your position. However, the problem of "temporary" Quality is in the one-year push toward greatness, then the jumping ship effect by staff seeking instant gratification with an existing top corps which has became the norm in today's world of drum corps (especially within lower corps attempting to climb the competitive ranks). Quality without loyalty (from both the organization and the individual) is nothing more than selfishness; but when our culture teaches us that entitlement and instant gratification is acceptable, loyalty usually gets shoved overboard.

That's...deep. Haha

[FHdork]

I'm pretty surprised that people have not been discussing the IMPROVEMENT in the Bluecoats since 2006 when Wozniak and Higgins began working together at Bloo. In six seasons, they've taken a good hornline and made them (to brass tuned ears...) instantly distinctive. Special props for Higgins in this, as he is/was the driving force behind pushing the tuba section from quite fine, to simply the best in drum corps.

I predict this new team will quickly create...I should say 're-create'...a distinctive brass sound for SCV reminiscent of the 1980s, when Rick South was the master craftsman for pyramid of sound, tonal balance, and overall quality.

There are a number of outstanding brass programs in drum corps, and with this hire SCV is looking to join them...again.

[Elmo Blatch]

With these moves, does anyone think there will be new version of "competitive inertia" suggested? Maybe it will now be called "west coast competitive inertia."

For most of you reading this, that won't make a bit of sense. For those of you in the know, it will.

[Bruckner8]

With these moves, does anyone think there will be new version of "competitive inertia" suggested? Maybe it will now be called "west coast competitive inertia."

For most of you reading this, that won't make a bit of sense. For those of you in the know, it will.

CI only has one version. It just "is" until it isn't anymore.

Even before this change, SCV had it, and Bluecoats did not. Just look at 2011 for the proof. I predicted in other threads that if Bloo stumbles even a little bit, they will get slammed, and the CI will be reset. CI is the only explanation for SCV beating Bloo in 2011. The tie goes to the corps with the CI. Bloo caught lightning in a bottle in 2010, and threw it all away in 2011.

SCV just inherited a very mature, proven brass staff, a staff that, when at Bloo, beat SCV 7 of the last 8 years (2009 is the only exception, and rightfully so, lol). From a CI standpoint, that can only mean good things for SCV. HOWEVER, the major unknown is: Can the new staff work within the seemingly mysterious SCV construct? There's no guarantee, as is shown by the revolving door of brass staffs there. There have been 8 brass staffs in the last 10 years at SCV! On that basis alone, the new team is taking quite a risk.

[brassEXPERT]

The other problem I have was when you were talking about is how they brass changes might have a good effect on the corps. I understand you used the percussion as an example for positive changes, but that doesn't explain how the brass will get better. Consistency seems a much more favorable way.

This exchange need not be a win/loose issue; not everything is a competition. What I was attempting to point out was that your generalized statement about judges having no intellect, combined with you not caring at all about their backgrounds, did not bode well in supporting your position. There are certainly some incompetent people in all professions, but what you did was call all judges incompetent without any actual proof whatsoever by pointing to any specific judges and specific criteria.

Consistency is only good when the staff is good as well. Consistency with a bad staff will just mean a consistently bad product! Nothing against Vanguard, because I do respect the history of the organization and their mark in DCI, but their brass program this season was far inferior to years past. I thoroughly enjoyed the sound quality of the 2009 line, and have since felt the quality diminish, ending in what I thought was a brass travesty last year. Over the course of the season, I felt as if the overall quality of the line improved, although basic fundamental horn line skills such as tuning and articulations fell to the wayside. You stated earlier that you heard SCV warming up in the lot and were very impressed. My only response is that any drum corps can sound great standing still in the parking lot. I too, have come to love the sound of different horn lines based on what they sound like in the lot, but the true championship caliber lines retain that sound when they go to the field (i.e. Carolina Crown, BD, The Cadets). I too heard Vanguard in the parking lot this season, and thought that they still sounded far less mature than any of the top 5 lines, so much that I would agree with the 11th place mark on prelims. A poor line with a challenging book does not win titles or championships. One of the things that turned me away from the show this season was the fact that the brass never quite made the performance level high enough to match the complexity of the book. I think they will not make this mistake again with a first year staff.

The Bloo staff will do well with SCV. It will definitely take some transition time, but the effects COULD be as immediate as those seen with Scott. Although the judges are not always correct, and it may often seem as if their personal feelings get in the way of placements, I think that this year was judged accurately come championship week. My only complaint overall was that I thought phantom and crown could have been even closer, maybe even with phantom coming in fourth place instead.

Just remember, my new DCP friend, I AM the expert.

PS - You are obviously very passionate about this issue, so much that you made a DCP account to defend it. Seems like you either wear special SCV underwear, or you are/ aspire to be a member of their horn line. Just calling it as is Mr. KR

[Elmo Blatch]

SCV just inherited a very mature, proven brass staff, a staff that, when at Bloo, beat SCV 7 of the last 8 years (2009 is the only exception, and rightfully so, lol). From a CI standpoint, that can only mean good things for SCV.

If your previous statement (and this "competitive inertia" concept is possible), then why didn't this hold true for the Bluecoats in 2008 or 2009 after their 2007 season, or in 2011 after their 2010 season?

[wackywords]

is this gonna be the first year that SCV does a DFW audition? that should prove well.