KeithHall Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There were a few.... Muchachos and Bridgemen in particular. Could there have been another way to handle it or was DCI right in DQing them? How about a 10 point penalty per over age members? Any comments? For me it was sad to see probably the best drum corps in 1975 thrown out of finals. Does having overage members really help your corps? This will give us something to chat about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There were a few.... Muchachos and Bridgemen in particular. Could there have been another way to handle it or was DCI right in DQing them? How about a 10 point penalty per over age members? Any comments? For me it was sad to see probably the best drum corps in 1975 thrown out of finals. Does having overage members really help your corps? This will give us something to chat about. > Muchachos and Bridgemen in particular. Could there have been another way to handle it or was DCI right in DQing them? If the corps staff knew about the over-age performers and the over-age performer involvement was done on purpose, then the DQ's were very appropriate. However, if the corps staff were duped like SCV was in '89 then that would be a different matter. > For me it was sad to see probably the best drum corps in 1975 thrown out of finals. If you find it sad then blame the corps staff not DCI. Cheating is Cheating and the of-age members were harmed by that cheating not by DCI implementing the DQ's. > How about a 10 point penalty per over age members? Nope; cheating is extremely serious should be dealt with as a serious offense. Again, the of-age kids were harmed by the cheating not by the penalty assessed. > Does having overage members really help your corps? Would having the horn section from Here Come the Mummies help a corps' horn section? Would having adult professional dancers from The Lion King help a corps' guard section? Would having the best adult professional rudimental drum set players help a corps' battery section? Well Duh!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbasaurusRex Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 the of-age members were harmed The of-age members paid a higher price than anyone else involved and that was a shame. In my opinion, a more fair and appropriate course of action would have been to remove any over age members and let the corps finish the season fairly, then bar the adults responsible from future participation in DCI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) The of-age members paid a higher price than anyone else involved and that was a shame. In my opinion, a more fair and appropriate course of action would have been to remove any over age members and let the corps finish the season fairly, then bar the adults responsible from future participation in DCI. While I agree that the of-age members paid a high price (including the of-age members of other corps which were beaten during the season by the cheaters), I disagree with your solution. Why? Because you win as a "team"; you take the glory as a "team"; so you should also lose as a "team"; and you should especially take responsibilities for a team member skirting the rules as a "team". This applies in all competitive activities whether baseball, football, or drum corps; if one person cheats the whole team pays the price. Just look at the recent HS football situation which made national news because they had to forfeit many games due to two ineligible players, or college teams that have had entire seasons including championships wiped out because of one stupid person who chose to cheat. THAT philosophy is a perfect solution, because it is what keeps most individuals on teams from even thinking about cheating (especially adults who are in charge). Once a person realizes that their actions are detrimental to ALL involved, including members of other teams who are following the rules, the lesson is thus better learned when cheating does occur. Edited October 11, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbasaurusRex Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Personally, I think that approach is taking things a little too seriously. It's supposed to be fun. It's music. With kids. But, I respect your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Personally, I think that approach is taking things a little too seriously. It's supposed to be fun. It's music. With kids. But, I respect your opinion. It is also $3000 in fees and another $2000 in transportation / spending money per year for a kid to compete in this fun, musical environment. That is serious money; cheating within that context is serious; and therefore it should should be dealt with as serious; period! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Not sure how many Muchachos there were but instead of penalizing the huge majority of kids that were in the corps, wouldn't it have been a better idea for Muchachos to take those kids out, let the corps march with holes, and deal with the dumb as s adults at a later time? We're talking 15-21 year old kids that spent a lot of time practicing and fundraising to make the season happen. Go after the staff and director after finals. This isn't professional sports! They're not Pete Rose. Kids! Just seemed like a terrible way to handle the situation. As a school admiinistrator, I would not want to punish the 98% that followed the rules, just the 2% and the staff that knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozarkbugler Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I'm not getting into the discussion of what is the proper amount of the penalty. However, one of the major problems with our society today is that too many things that were wrong in the past go on without any penalty. High penalties should be in place to send the proper message. And yes, there can be exceptions made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Anyone want to refresh my memory with Crossmen as they were hit in the regular season IIRC. Never was sure how why that affected them at DCI Week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Not sure how many Muchachos there were but instead of penalizing the huge majority of kids that were in the corps, wouldn't it have been a better idea for Muchachos to take those kids out, let the corps march with holes, and deal with the dumb as s adults at a later time? We're talking 15-21 year old kids that spent a lot of time practicing and fundraising to make the season happen. Go after the staff and director after finals. This isn't professional sports! They're not Pete Rose. Kids! Just seemed like a terrible way to handle the situation. As a school admiinistrator, I would not want to punish the 98% that followed the rules, just the 2% and the staff that knew. a) DCI is doing nothing more than following the same rule structure as most all other 15 - 21 year-old youth activities such as NCAA, Little League Baseball, State High School Activities Associations, etc.. so there is nothing draconian about the disqualification rule. b) The cheating damages the youth of other teams (corps) when the team with the cheaters competitively place above the teams with honorable youth and honorable adults; so the damaging effect of their cheating gores way farther than just the perpetrators or the single team (corps). c) What the DQ (for all) rule does is to provide a severe enough punishment which shows the cheaters that their actions effect all involved; and it helps prevent the youth from ever developing into a Pete Rose as well as shows the adults that their actions will harm the innocent if they decide to cheat. d) DCI is not the bad entity here; DCI is not the one harming the innocent by having the DQ rule in place; those who know that the rule is there yet choose to cheat anyway are the ones to blame for the DQ, and thus those creating the situation for the DQ are harming the innocent not DCI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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