Piper Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 DCA and DCI crowds can be a different breed sometimes. I remember one time in the early 70's when the Skyliners took the field. The crowd was all pumped up to begin with, and when they went into the Elk's Parade all hell broke loose. I mean people were storming the sidelines and everything. I was just a young kid at the time and pretty scared. Looking back on it...man, what a night! I loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funcorpsagain Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Some more perspective to help frame this discussion… The Cavaliers and Madison Scouts, of course, still have active junior corps and a huge base of alumni going back decades - having a base of recent age-outs helps enormously. First, slight correction regarding the comment above as it pertains to the Cavaliers Alumni Corps…there were some “millennium” (i.e., 2000s) alumni, but they were a small percentage overall. For example, although we had members from all 60 years, we only had one from 2007. The distribution of members was roughly a bell curve centered over the ’79-’84 seasons. There is no right or wrong formula regarding alumni corps, and pretty much all of those that have performed at DCI have been successful and entertaining, perhaps to different degrees. The secret is exploiting the corps’ unique emotional connection with the audience. 27th got the largest crowd reaction for a couple of reasons. First, they performed in front of the largest crowd – Saturday night, upstaging the competition in the opinion of many (maybe that’s why the alumni slot is on Friday now). They also brought back a beloved defunct corps. A bit of an aside… Some “purists” will claim that by allowing non-alumni, 27th wasn’t really an “alumni” corps. So what? The people who were in 27th Alumni all shared one thing – they loved the old Lancers, whether they marched there or not. Furthermore, eastern Massachusetts is unique in the sheer number and density of corps that used to exist; many of the alumni of those countless, small corps were able to recreate a bit of magic under the respected banner of the Lancers, the regional powerhouse. I bring up this point because Bridgemen aren’t an “alumni” corps either, but that should make no difference in whether or not they perform at DCI. Star, Anaheim, and Royal Airs shared the same emotional hook as 27th – resurrecting inactive corps. SCV and Star did basically stand-stills, but they played beautifully and the guard did their thing. Star was helped in that their oldest alums aged out in ’85, so they didn’t have to train piston-rotary alums who don’t read music! Star’s use of the integrated video was also smart and compensated for the fact that, unlike other corps that have performed in the Friday night slot, they had less of an “identity.” This is not a negative comment, just an observation; Star had a short history and changed their look and style often. Their unifying theme was the excellence year after year, but the videos helped complete the story. Madison and Cavaliers (like SCV) represented existing corps and (like Royal Airs and Anaheim) marched full shows. The emotional impact of Madison’s performance is undeniable. The corps has historically been in-you-face, exciting drum corps, so the MSARP was huge and in-your-face, and the hometown crowd loved it. Cavaliers have been so phenomenally successful in the last 20 years, it is easy to forget the other great moments the corps has provided in its 60+ years. So, CAC chose NOT to perform anything from after the ’92 season (Mars and Jupiter were played in ’95, but also in ’85). In addition, a stand-still just wasn’t an option for a corps with the Cavaliers’ visual tradition, so the 1960s opener “Bully” was set to a Mike Gaines drill complete with diamond-cutter at the end – with septuagenerian members. But when you think of the Cavaliers overall, you think of integrated, machine-like execution. In my completely biased opinion, I think CAC had the most balanced and best performed of the alumni shows. The point of this overly-long review is that there a few lessons for the Bridgemen… 1) A Bridgemen DCI performance should be something special, not a continuation of business as usual. The Friday not spot is usually a one-time spectacular. Thousands of DCI fans have seen the Bridgemen at Allentown since ’06; unless the corps is going to do something more than a larger version of that, there’s no need to bring them to Indy. 2) People remember Bridgemen for being wildly entertaining and humorous. But they weren’t entertaining just because of the humor – they were entertaining because they executed fantastically across all sections. Just watch/listen to the shows from ’77-80 (and the drum lines beyond that). Schtick is no substitute for quality. I know several of the members – the good news is, they are more than capable of bumping it to the next level in execution. 3) I agree with others who have said that the current corps needs to vastly improve its visual program and guard over what they have currently. There are definite cultural issues to overcome first regarding the latter. 4) Humor will still be important, but I also agree that things like the San Diego chicken are facile and the reference doesn’t age well. The twin geniuses (Kerchner and DeLucia) are completely capable of coming up with a fresh way of presenting this essential Bridgemen ingredient. I also hope they do it with Surf this year without playing a single actual Bridgmen tune. If Surf does a Bridgemen tribute, then what role is there for the Bridgemen? Finally, I think it is a mistake to use modern corps criteria and recent Bridgemen performances as the indicator as to whether or not Bridgemen are even worthy of consideration. Remember that 27th was created from scratch in two years. CAC and MSARP, although representing existing organizations, created their corps in even less time. The Bridgemen have had an organization since 2005, and that provides a very solid base on which to build. There is no reason to believe that a Bridgemen grand reunion at DCI couldn’t be unique, emotional, and completely entertaining. Of course they should be invited! Rick Bridgemen '06/'07 CAC '08 27 Lancers Alumni '94 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) I wore out old betamax tapes as a kid watching the Bridgemen, endlessly. I've seen videos of the alumni corps performances. Anyway, alumni corps are like going to watch a reunion game of the 1976 Harlem Globetrotters. And... once something has been done, what's the point of doing it again? There are loads of new possibilities out there to explore. Some of the largest and well attended rock shows each year invariably have classic bands from 30-40 years ago, so there is still a market for music played from earlier decades, whether its the Stones, AC/DC, U2, Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Buffet or whoever. The Rockettes have been selling out Broadway shows for years. Nutcracker Suite and all.' Hasn't changed in 50 years too. West Side Story, Oklahoma, still packs them in. Jersey Boys packs them in. Phantom of the Opera opened in 1988. Its still performing on Broadway. Classic Rock Radio still has a bigger listening audience ( even among the under 30 crowd ) than Alernative Rock radio stations. People still watch movies they've seen many times before, like Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Its a Wonderful Life, Christmas Story, Miracle on 34th Street, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, Bridge on the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, etc.... And 50 other older movies.. and over and over again. Classic Cars and Classic boat shows still pack them. ESPN Sports Classics still has lots and lots of fans watching the sports games from years and years ago. Fenway Park may be a dump for a MLB team. But its a venerable dump that some want to stay exactly as it has since the days that Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc called it home field there. Corps still play and listen to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Brahms, Bach, Mozart, and 50 other composers, some from centuries earlier.It doesn't get much " older " than this music. But it still works. People still enjoy it. Even after hearing it over and over again. There are probably dozen of other examples one can cite where people are interested in seeing and hearing things from the past again. Its all around us. Edited December 4, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Some of the largest and well attended rock shows each year invariably have classic bands from 30-40 years ago, so there is still a market for music played from earlier decades, whether its the Stones, AC/DC, U2, Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Buffet or whoever. The Rockettes have been selling out Broadway shows for years. Nutcracker Suite and all.' Hasn't changed in 50 years too. West Side Story, Oklahoma, still packs them in. Jersey Boys packs them in. Phantom of the Opera opened in 1988. Its still performing on Broadway. Classic Rock Radio still has a bigger listening audience ( even among the under 30 crowd ) than Alernative Rock radio stations. People still watch movies they've seen many times before, like Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, Its a Wonderful Life, Christmas Story, Miracle on 34th Street, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, Bridge on the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, etc.... And 50 other older movies.. and over and over again. Classic Cars and Classic boat shows still pack them. ESPN Sports Classics still has lots and lots of fans watching the sports games from years and years ago. Fenway Park may be a dump for a MLB team. But its a venerable dump that some want to stay exactly as it has since the days that Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, etc called it home field there. Corps still play and listen to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Brahms, Bach, Mozart, and 50 other composers, some from centuries earlier.It doesn't get much " older " than this music. But it still works. People still enjoy it. Even after hearing it over and over again. There are probably dozen of other examples one can cite where people are interested in seeing and hearing things from the past again. Its all around us. There may be an audience for that, who knows? It just doesn't really overlap well with the current DCI audience. Sure, there is a nostalgia bit, but what percentage of the audience was even born when the Bridgemen were around? How many kids marching today have ever even seen the Bridgemen on video? I marched 20 years ago... and even then most kids I marched with hadn't ever seen them even on tape. So, how could there be that much of a nostalgic connection with the current members and audience? Edited December 4, 2011 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) There may be an audience for that, who knows? It just doesn't really overlap well with the current DCI audience. Sure, there is a nostalgia bit, but what percentage of the audience was even born when the Bridgemen were around? How many kids marching today have ever even seen the Bridgemen on video? I marched 20 years ago... and even then most kids I marched with hadn't ever seen them even on tape. So, how could there be that much of a nostalgic connection with the current members and audience? As someone who actually brings kids to drum corps shows, talks to them about drum corps, etc. (unlike most of the people on here and elsewhere who presume to speak for "the kids"), I'd say you're underestimating them a bit. A good many of the kids I work with today know about and love Star of Indiana and the old Velvet Knights. Not that they love them more than current corps . . . not by a long shot . . . but saying they wouldn't go for a Bridgemen alumni performance is presumptuous. Assuming that alumni performance is well done. That's beside the point though. High school kids don't really make up much of the audience on Friday night at semis. It's typically a bit older. You won't even find that many recent ageouts. The crowd you typically find there would go ape for a Bridgemen alumni corps. Edited December 4, 2011 by Rifuarian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) There may be an audience for that, who knows? It just doesn't really overlap well with the current DCI audience. Sure, there is a nostalgia bit, but what percentage of the audience was even born when the Bridgemen were around? How many kids marching today have ever even seen the Bridgemen on video? I marched 20 years ago... and even then most kids I marched with hadn't ever seen them even on tape. So, how could there be that much of a nostalgic connection with the current members and audience? Well, we do have some insights on this question. The exhibition Corps at DCI as a collective group have, on the whole, been received very enthusiatically by DCI audiences. We know this because DCI has continued this feature at each of its DCI Championship Week formats. It is logical to assume that if DCI audiences did NOT respond well to these Corps, then DCI woould have been unlikely to continue this feature each year. But on the whole, they have been a hit and have been something that DCI fans have seemed to enjoy. One of the loudest and longest ovations at the completion of ANY Corps performance... competing Corps or exhibition Corps... at DCI Finals just happens to be an exhibition Corps ( 27th Lancers, 1994 ) The levels of audience reception to be received by the Bayonne Bridgemen may or may not turn out to be a big hit, depending upon their performance. But lest we forget, without naming names here, there have been a few cases where even DCI top 12 performing Corps at Finals... even ultimate Champions themselves... have had performances that were not all that well received with the warm and fuzzies with many fans in the stands either, you know what I mean ? Edited December 4, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funcorpsagain Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 There may be an audience for that, who knows? It's strange that this is being debated. It is knowable and known. 27th may have only been inactive for a few years, but Anaheim, Mighty St. Joe's and Royal Airs had been defunct for much longer; all were well received at DCI. Actually.....and this may offend a few.... But the Bridgemen lately seem less intent on being " the Bridgemen" and more about being a designers vanity project. The humor has been sorely lacking, and the humor as well as the quality made Bayonne what they were. Sadly this issue has affected many alumni groups this designer has been affiliated with. If they got back to being " Bayonne", cleaned a few things up and eliminated some drama, I'd be all for them going to DCI week. But they need to make some changes first, and based on my viewings the last 3 years, they don't think they need to change. Shame, they had a ton of momentum out of the gate, but too much bs squandered it I think you hit the core of the problem -- management has proven inflexible to change, unreceptive to advice, and thin-skinned to criticism. That is the issue that must be overcome, not concerns about audience reception or the abilities of the corps to perform (which is easy to solve by comparison). Also, if they are invited, will they stand by the announced shows for 2012/13? It always seems like a mistake to unnecessarily lock into a multi-year program (ask BAC how that worked). It has a ring of "my way or the highway" as well, shutting down discussion, input, or changing circumstances. But these are solvable problems if there is a will to do so. I hope there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There may be an audience for that, who knows? It just doesn't really overlap well with the current DCI audience. Sure, there is a nostalgia bit, but what percentage of the audience was even born when the Bridgemen were around? How many kids marching today have ever even seen the Bridgemen on video? I marched 20 years ago... and even then most kids I marched with hadn't ever seen them even on tape. So, how could there be that much of a nostalgic connection with the current members and audience? well.... having last attended finals in 2010, i can tell you way more of the audience finals week is of the age to know Bridgemen as opposed to those that wouldnt be. Hell in 2002, with an older crowd, not that many got to see the Royal Airs in their prime. But they knew the legend, and applauded like hell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navillus WP Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Some more perspective to help frame this discussion… A bit of an aside… Some "purists" will claim that by allowing non-alumni, 27th wasn't really an "alumni" corps. So what? The people who were in 27th Alumni all shared one thing – they loved the old Lancers, whether they marched there or not. Furthermore, eastern Massachusetts is unique in the sheer number and density of corps that used to exist; many of the alumni of those countless, small corps were able to recreate a bit of magic under the respected banner of the Lancers, the regional powerhouse. More importantly, Rick, while about a third of the participants in the "Once More In '94" DCI performance hadn't been 27th Lancers before 1986 (the last junior corps season), the people who DID participate" busted butt" for almost TWO YEARS: rehearsing, drilling, performing in several exhibitions, and marching in parades. Anyone who wore the corps uniform and performed under the Two-Seven banner for two seasons deserves to be considered a Lancer. The fact that the "Once More In '94" DCI show was so well done speaks volumes about everyone who made the commitment. A large number of the post-1986 members had been members of corps that had been instructed by Lancer alumni and/or by Lancer staff/instructors. A couple of the "Once More in '94" participants were in fact former 27th Lancer instructors who'd never marched with Two-Seven. (e.g., Charlie Poole)... or were members of the pre-Lancer I.C. Reveries (e.g., Jerry and Charlie Foley) who had not marched as Lancers Edited January 6, 2012 by Navillus WP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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